Okay, so this was a bit of an annoying cliff-hanger to close off the series with. Nothing was resolved at all. We’re just going into a 3-month hiatus, which will immediately start with the fight against Caster.
The rest of this episode was building up, and it’s clear that the creators are holding on to their trump cards for the second season. The dialogue in the Rider parts in particular were very good (by the way, I could have sworn that Rider was the Persian conqueror Iskander, but instead he turns out to be Alexander the Great).
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Overall this series had some flaws here and there, but despite that this was my favorite Type-Moon adaptation aside from about half of the Kara no Kyoukai Movies. I’m probably one of the few who actually liked the Tsukihime anime, but in the end that series is inferior to the setting and research of this series, and none of its characters come close to Rider’s. It’s just better in a lot of different ways.
For the next season, I do hope that Caster dies off quickly, because the caster duo has been the least interesting pair of the series so far. It’s all just too standard, the fights against him were boring, his hobbies of murdering children never really paid off due to the censorship, and this episode pretty much sealed the deal and the creators just gave up on him, turning him into a giant blob in order to at least make it a bit of a challenge to bring him down.
Rating: ** (Excellent)
Historically, aren’t Iskander of Macedobia and Alexander the Great one in the same? Hasn’t he been referred to by a few different names? Not really an area of expertise for myself, so if anyone does know, id be interested in hearing about it.
Yeah I also think they are the same guy, it was alexander after that conquered the persian kingdons, I guess Iskander is just how he was called there. Well I’m not sure either, but after each episode of this series I can’t help myself and think of how stay/night sucks in comparison.
Damn teenagers, just wish half of the series had as much adults and adult themes as this one. I’m pretty sure its just a dream though.
Yes, Isklander and Alexander are two different names for the very same guy who might have died of alcoholic…
Iskandar and Alexander are the same name. Iskandar is just the arabic variant, kind of like Charles and Karl.
Where do people get IskandEr from? I’ve been seeing it around a lot o_O
To be fair, I doubt there would’ve been enough time for them to do the upcoming fight justice in this episode if they tried to cram it in.
If I’m not mistaken, both the names refer to the same person, just a case of someone who was known by different names to different people. For your info Psgels, Caster didn’t just turn into a giant blob, he is summoning the creature. And did my eyes deceive me or you actually wanted to see the creative ways those guys went at murdering those children?
Shock! Cliffhanger! Saber can walk on water? Don’t remember that skill on her stat sheet. Well, not going to worry about historical accuracies myself. This is a work of fiction after all, with a lot of literary license taken.
I was a bit taken aback by how similar Ryuunosuke’s tirade about entertainment mirrored Archer’s conversation with Kirei. Also felt gross having to listen to these two on Christmas. Kinda bad timing. And they don’t get taken out….yet. Well, maybe on Easter. XD
Rider’s awesome as always. Would be interested in seeing how he does on that game. (Is that a Sega Saturn cartridge? They’re releasing a new game now? XD) Still a bit pissed at him for some of the things he said to Saber during the Grail Dialogue though. I’m pretty sure he left his own army leaderless and aimless after he died too so he’s not one to talk.
I wonder what this ocean is that Rider was talking about. I wonder if he’ll ever realize he’s probably sitting right in the middle of it, even though he didn’t actually conquer his way to it.
his hobbies of murdering children never really paid off due to the censorship
Do you really think the shock factor of seeing the mutilated corpses and body parts of children add any value to this work at all? I think after years of CSI, NCIS, Bones, etc. leaving things to the imagination of those who already have some idea might be good enough without turning off others with less interest in such things…..and gentler stomachs. I suppose the producers had to balance viewer preferences with following the novel accurately. Actually, I think I remember reading somewhere that the ritual Caster cast this episode was a lot more graphic in the novel, with actual sacrifices being consumed, etc.
Btw, Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a Happy New Year!
I’m glad someone else liked Tsukihime. I thought it was a beautifully tragic series. It wasn’t perfect but it was still enjoyable.
Yes iskandar and alexander the great are one and the same… It’s normal for historical people to have several names since that’s bound to happen
Was I the only one who enjoyed the dynamic between the macabre duo?
I thought the whole conversation they had about the existence of God was thought provoking, and I was surprised that it was aired, without it being completely negated.
What I love about this show is that it allows a spectrum of views to be shown without heavy handed moralising.
Blushy faced Waver! Feeding the flames of BL fans over the world +1
Iskandar or Eskandar (Persian: اسکندر) is the Persian version of the name Alexander, after Alexander the Great.
@ meow:
>I’m pretty sure he left his own army leaderless and aimless after he died too so he’s not one to talk.
you’re accusing him of DYING? what should he have done? not die?
Correct me if I’m wrong but Rider accused Saber of being too self absorbed in her own ideals to lead her people. As such, according to him, while she did save them in times of trouble, she did not set an example for them to follow once she was gone. That pissed me off because that’s not much different from Rider himself, conquering his way east to reach the eastern sea. He may have inspired and lead his people to great glory to the point where they admired and loved him even after death but he too fell short of his goal and once he himself was gone, everything fell apart pretty much the same way for him too. As Saber said, his heirs were slain and his country was split into three. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I get where their philosophies clash. Rider was a conqueror. He wasn’t out to protect anyone, even his own people, or build a strong country. He just wanted to challenge the world like a martial artist who goes around challenging the strong in order to improve himself and make a mark on history, even if it kills him. He’s not the sort of king to think about his country’s future or how to keep his people going on for generations after he himself is gone. Yet he goes an accuses Saber of exactly that. Did he inspire anyone to pick up after him after he was gone? His words got to Saber all the same because in spite of all she did for her country, it wound up in ruins anyway and she did acknowledge that she lacked the bonds that Rider had with his own people because she was too busy trying to fill shoes she herself believed were far too big for her.
Btw, this is my read from the show itself. I’m trying not to reference any real-life history. As far as I know, King Arthur is a fictional character, possibly an amalgamation of other famous lieges from the British Isles. It’s a question mark to me if he and his Knights of the Round Table were even real or how accurate popular understanding of his exploits are. (I highly doubt he used to be part of the Roman Empire.) Alexander the Great was a real historical figure but I won’t even pretend to know anything about his real life exploits or his motivations. I didn’t even see that Brad Pitt movie about him. So lets keep the discussion within the realm of Fate Zero, okay?
@meow – The significant difference is that Saber/ Arturia’s kingdom split as a direct consequence of the common citizen’s inability to relate to her, in the Fate universe. As a leader she was seen as distant and cold – that’s why her fellowship could not last.
The contrast between her leadership and Rider’s could not be more pronounced. Rider forged such a bond with his men that even after his death, and even after his kingdom had collapsed, they continued to strive towards his dream of exploration and expansion. He was, in fact, so successful that his ultimate Noble Phantasm is a direct manifestation of the fact – the dream of all of his followers made real by their collective, combined longing. Rider created a dream in his men that would never die. Saber alienated hers.
@Tim
The significant difference is that Saber/ Arturia’s kingdom split as a direct consequence of the common citizen’s inability to relate to her
I agree that Rider is incredibly charismatic but I’m not sure if Saber loses badly at that. She has a Rank B Charisma too. I highly doubt that Saber’s Knights of the Round Table were any less loyal to Saber than any of Rider’s subordinates and can readily imagine them to be Saber’s Noble Phantasm if she were ever summoned as a Rider class. More importantly, she cared about her kingdom and her people and was willing to sacrifice herself for it’s future and I can’t say she failed. While Camelot itself may have fallen from it’s days of glory when Arturia was alive, the surviving Knights remained active after Arturia was gone and Britain itself remains today, as does her legend. (Although, interestingly, this point hasn’t really been directly addressed by Saber herself.) Her regrets for her failings as King seem real and appropriate for someone who wished only the best for her country. I don’t see her as unworthy of bearing the title of King in any way. Do you? Contrast this to Rider, whose attitude is that his subjects must sacrifice everything for him and his personal goals (even if it means their destruction?). You can admire his balls and envy his abilities and accomplishments but would you consider him a great king and leader of his country? He just thought about expanding as far as he could. How much thought did he have for the people who lived in the lands he was conquering? Or his own people who were dying so he could reach his goals? Once he was gone, everything fell apart like a house of cards. I’d consider him a great military leader who perhaps paved the way for new countries to sprout up where he passed, at the cost of destroying what was once there, for good or ill, but what he built, I doubt he planned for any of it to last. Perhaps he died too young to get around to thinking about it.
Anyway, he qualifies to be King of Conquerors. Archer somehow King of ******. (Why not King of Treasure? Seriously, that seems to be all FSN’s version of him is on about.) I just can’t accept Rider’s argument that Saber isn’t worthy of being a king, simply for regretting her failings and wishing to correct them for the sake of her people, even if it means sacrificing her place in history.
Potential FSN Spoilers/future episode speculation
One thing I found strange was how Rider seemed to home in on Saber wanting to change the past as equaling wanting to replace herself completely as King. We know that from FSN but it could have been interpreted more sensibly as Saber wanting to change the outcome of a particular turning point in her rule rather than undoing everything altogether. Think about this: If Waver was part of his Reality Marble, that incarnation of him would have had knowledge of what would come to pass. How would Rider react if that future incarnation tried to intervene for Rider’s sake? Would Rider really be against it?
The Light novels were definitely more graphic than the anime, and I’m not just talking about the anime’s censorship. Caster was far more cruel in the novels. The duo play this one lady’s intestines like a harp as Caster keeps her alive with his magic. Talk about a gruesomely written scene. But it’s typical fare for someone like Urobuchi, who has even written a story about a tentacle/blob monster getting raped by a next-door neighbor… Well, that, and then the tentacle/blob monster turns one of the main characters’ friends into a sex slave for him by genetically altering her body into one that is in constant pain. And to think that’s not even the worst of what happens… I question my own sanity when I end up finding humanity’s horrifically sudden downfall to be “bittersweet”… even though people are left to either become insane or commit suicide to save themselves from it all…
But the only thing I’m trying to say here is that Urobuchi has the capacity to write things in Fate/Zero that make everything that happened so far to look like child’s play. And trust me… He does. =P
I wonder if he’s trying to compensate for the lack of a written novel’s visual impact by writing up scenes that get under the reader’s skin. Nitroplus does seem to be famous for that and, well, there are parts of FSN that could well belong in the horror genre, particularly the Heaven’s Feel route. Tsukihime lands in that genre rather comfortably too, from what I hear. Ironically, I just came across an article on a web blog about Japanese fans apparently protesting the amount of graphic gore in the Fate Zero manga. I’m a little nervous about what the blue-rays are going to show once all those black shadows and turned cameras get “fixed”.
I’m not sure how I’d take it if this Caster and his Master somehow make it into a future Carnival Phantasm. There’s just no parodying them in good taste.