You know, despite the supposed details that are left out from the original Umineko, I’m really enjoying this series. Even Maria is getting better if we consider her as the culprit, or one thing very much related to the culprit, but that’s where the mystery comes in: perhaps she has a very good reason to act the way she does? I mean, this is a fantasy-series: we’ve got glowing butterflies, so a bit of a mental delusion also might fit.
Anyway, what really struck me about this series is the amount of fans from the visual novel that complain about the details that were left out. I’ve been blogging for more than three and a half years now, and I’ve covered lots of series that had the same “the manga/novel/game is so much better”-vibe. The thing however, is that I haven’t played the original novels. I’m simply trying to watch an anime here, and without all the comments on the things that were left out, I probably wouldn’t even have noticed. The only thing that would have annoyed me was how the anime creators tried to overplay Maria’s Higurash-faces, but even that would have been a small detail that’s easily overlooked.
While I haven’t read Umineko, I do want to try and put this into a bit of perspective. If I recall correctly, the first episode of this series lasted a whole three hours. With four episodes, the anime has now been going on for let’s say an hour and 20 minutes (assuming that every episode is 20 minutes long, plus 3 minutes of OP and ED). Within that hour and twenty minutes in the game, was the storyline already this exciting, intriguing and mysterious in the game? I really doubt it.
The point I’m trying to make is this: Take any anime A, it doesn’t matter which one it is, as long as it’s really, really good; amazing in every single way. Now, ask yourself the question: would that series have been even better if we knew every single detail about the cast? How they spent their exact life, what their hobbies are, their entire wardrobe, childhood sweat-hearts, whatever. In my opinion, it doesn’t necessarily have to be so.
This of course is an extreme example, but the same principle goes for Umineko: according to the comments I’ve read on the previous episode, Ryukishi decided to go for the far end of the spectrum by adding lots of background, but that’s not the only way to achieve a deep cast, in my opinion. I’m of course not saying that the anime does have a deep cast, but we’re only four episodes in. There is NO way to tell whether the cast is going to be deep or not at this point.
Anyway, as for this episode, I’m really curious to where the creators are going with this: there are only five people alive at this point. Are the creators going to pull the same thing as Higurashi, and keep pulling a time loop over and over? There are a multiple amount of different arcs, after all.
Remember that the Higurashi anime was also incredibly inconsistent. Every arc was different, and even within each arc there were huge mood-changes. what if this goes the same in Umineko? We’re now at the point at which the story is building up, using the past slaughters in order to create a sense of despair. However, with so many episodes left, there still is enough time for the characters to either die and revive, or regroup and try to figure out what the heck is going on, and who Beatrice is. The thing I liked best of this episode was the atmosphere. It was a really tight one, especially considering we’re only four episodes in.
Rating: ** (Excellent)
Without spoiling anything, I can tell you that next week’s episode should give a good idea of the overall premise for the Umineko series if they do it right.
The next episode would be the true start. Right now, we should just wait patiently for the host to arrive.
I really hope they give sensible non-fantasy solutions for this one. I felt terribly cheated by Rika being the queen or whatever in Higurashi. I don’t mind the time loops and other supernatural stuff, as long as its part of the original premise of the series. I can think of it as part of the setting. But having that kind of explanations as a solution for the mystery is just cheap.
Rika’s queen bee ability wasn’t fantasy at all, and actually has a strong basis in biology. All organisms use chemical secretions as part of their communication, for example the brain itself is largely a chemical network, with the electrical system a later evolutionary trait that works on top of and in conjunction with the much older neurochemical network. If there was a group of people who lived in constant exposure to the parasite we saw in Higurashi, it makes sense that they would evolve a defense against it, and that it would be passed down in the genes of the family that initially evolved it.
But you can’t expect me to believe that a whole village would die because of the queen bee dying?
I’ve always been much more of a physics kind of guy, so my biology is pretty rusty, but still, I can’t help but being VERY skeptical about that whole business…
Higurashi spoilers
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Except… The Queen Bee theory wasn’t even correct in Higurashi. Takano just used it as a cover for her extermination of the village once Rika was ceremonially killed.
This time I’m really glad there’s somebody around who hasn’t read the VN and blogs the series.
Recently there was an interview with Ryûkishi (the original writer of Higurashi and Umineko) and he said that, compared to the flaws that Higurashi suffered, this time he had a closer look on what they take out when they plan an episode.
So basically what I want to say is, don’t give in to the hype and just keep watching the Anime as what it is, an Anime.
Even though there are times I disagree with your take on certain series, I always liked that you had your own opinion, so just stay with it…I bet you will like Umineko regardless what many people say.
And yes, up until now they didn’t cut anything that couldn’t or is not adressed again in a later portion of the story.
Next episode will be what many (me too) regard as the actual start of events, so I hope you will enjoy that.
I hear some people complaining that the anime has skipped the detailed backgrounds for the characters in the beginning, but I don’t really find this to be a problem. I fully expect relevant background to be revealed throughout the series.
And might not the earlier episodes have been rather boring if they all concentrated on introducing character backgrounds and relationships? At least this way we got to see a lot of blood right on the second episode. 😀
I certainly haven’t read the VN games either, but I completely agree about enjoying the series so far.
That said, this was probably the episode where the pacing started feeling a little off for me.
I didn’t have much of a problem with the previous three, mind you, but this time I noticed it more. The first half could have been an entire episode in its own right. As a result, the reactions to some of these events seemed underplayed and a little too short.
Even so, the later part was a noticeable improvement and the ending was quite interesting. Predictable, of course, but interesting.
Regardless of everything else, I’m still quite content and, like psgels mentioned, the series does have a good sense of atmosphere going for it.
Preview for the next episode, for those who enjoy spoilers:
http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html
Also, all the scenes that were not included in the anime up to this point weren’t an essential part of the plot. And while the anime does feel rushed and lacking of well fleshed characters, it’s actually doing a pretty decent job despite that.
It also helps that Ryukishi is personally supervising it, so I don’t think people will have to worry about important plot points being left out.
You know, I understand your viewpoint. They really don’t need to include all of that backround just yet, I’m just scared that it gets jumped over and several things will be taken out of context.
What I really don’t like is how they portrayed the emotions of the characters.
Battler cried a LOT, which is by no means a weakness, but establishes him as a character who can really feel for others. The anime seems to be going more the tough shounen hero route.
Also, no one being the LEAST bit shocked about finding Kinzo’s charred remains. He’s the family head and all so I would think they’d be a little more concerned instead of going “HEy it’s that guy’s corpse….whatever no one liked him anyway!!11
I give them credit for including Jessica’s heavy case of asthma. But it’s kinda strange how no one gave a sh**t much less handed her the medicine (even Nanjo who’s a DOCTOR just patted her on the back). People who don’t know about probably assumed that she just had a coughing fit from seeing Kanon die..
So yeah, all that backround being left out isn’t that bad, but I’m really sad that they chopped up the endearing interaction between the characters.
People complaining about the original source being better is quite annoying. Especially since it very often leads to someone spoiling the story, often out of malice. Yes, those people are doing this out of spite.
Nanima: so, I guess that for Umineko the characters are just a bit different. From my perspective, Battler isn’t a crybaby at all, and yet he has shown to be caring in his own way: by keeping to try and come up with a reasonable scenario to what happened, no matter how stupid it was, just in an attempt to get a clue to what’s going on.
As for grandfather’s dead body, from my perspective it was the sign that nobody really cared about him, which I guess ties in with how they’ve hardly seen the guy, and are much too occupied with the other deaths to care.
And yeah, I indeed thought that Jessica had a coughing fit, or threw up or something like that after the sight of Jun’s body. With that in mind, a few pats on the back seem reasonable, right?
From my perspective, these things didn’t ruin the characters. They just changed them.
Finally they slapped Maria! AAhh it felt so refreshing!
3 hours for episode 1? More like 8.
On Higurashi: As has been said above, the ‘queen’ theory was shown to be wrong within the show itself, rather it was the excuse used by the villains to justify what they did. In fact the supernatural elements of Higurashi are pretty much entirely incidental to the central mystery. The supernatural existed in Higurashi but wasn’t actually central to the solution of the main mystery.
As to whether the same is true of Umineko… keep watching and decide for yourself.
Anyway, what really struck me about this series is the amount of fans from the visual novel that complain about the details that were left out.
Go check out the Animesuki forum. Everywhere I go, none was as bad as this place, almost ALL of the novel readers can’t fucking shut up.
The thing is that they don’t realize the more they go OMG THEY CUT DIZ OUT THEY DUN INCLUDE THIS blahblahfuckingblah, it’s just bitching either buried in big blocks of text or wrapped up in a pretty box and tied with a red bow. Does anyone feel this way or is it just me?
Anyway, what really struck me about this series is the amount of fans from the visual novel that complain about the details that were left out.
Go check out the Animesuki forum. Everywhere I go, none was as bad as this place, almost ALL of the novel readers can’t fucking shut up.
The thing is that they don’t realize the more they go OMG THEY CUT DIZ OUT THEY DUN INCLUDE THIS blahblahfuckingblah, it’s just bitching either buried in big blocks of text or wrapped up in a pretty box and tied with a red bow. Does anyone feel this way or is it just me?
Ryukishi is overlooking the production of the anime, so he’s making sure all the major details are left in. As a reader of the visual novel, the biggest difference is how they skip over some of the character development, though it’s nothing that’s so important that they can’t get to it later on.
My only complaint is how they love to make Maria seem absolutely insane, but that certainly doesn’t stop this anime from being great.
I also love how the can of food is actually shown to be a can of mackeral in the anime. I was afraid they might not bring that joke in at all. Kumasawa is known to turn things into mackeral jokes, so it’s a nice treat for the visual novel fans.
Throughout half the episode I could not stop thinking “HEY LOOK SHE’S EVIL AS HELL Y’ALL”. It’s just plain ODD seeing Mariya pulling her evil loli faces and saying plain crude stuff only to be answered by the grown-ups as if it was a normal conversation. It gets especially bizarre when she like, is KIND OF trying to seem innocent and then goes “fufufufu” to herself AS IF NOONE WOULD KNOW. It’s just man I don’t even know.
Ayone else who thought “oh hello Ten Little Niggers” when the cast finds out about the portrait’s text? Not saying this in a negative way, but it’s clear they got a lot of inspiration from Christie.
“Not saying this in a negative way, but it’s clear they got a lot of inspiration from Christie.”
Umineko pokes fun at Christie and novels like that.. you’ll see…
Agatha Christie’s influence is so clear, but this is not a copy of that format! Christie’s novel was a thriller, and umineko mix thriller and magic elements in a race to explain the murder spree! That really adds to the plot beeyond Christies format.
Don’t have the time to make a long post, but in Umineko part of the reason Ryushiki fleshes the characters out so much is that their background is also significant to many of the mysteries. This was also the case in Higurashi. While the main mysteries were eventually solved in the anime, many of the more minor ones (such as the notorious third arc, or ‘reset’, and the whole witch stuff) were left unresolved where in the games they were, or at least were addressed. In Umineko, which places even more importance on character background and details, character background is not just a tool for adding depth, it is also a necessity for the overall mystery. This is why some people (me included) are a little angered at this.
This is not to say the anime is bad – it’s been a great fun for me to watch. But I also understand where the critics (at least the sensible ones) are coming from. As with just about anything, there will always be the extreme pessimists as well, that make it their life-long goal to butcher everything that doesn’t suit their tastes with exaggerated claims and flamboyant language-play, but that’s not to say they don’t have valid points sometimes, right? 🙂
As with just about anything, there will always be the extreme pessimists as well, that make it their life-long goal to butcher everything that doesn’t suit their tastes with exaggerated claims and flamboyant language-play, but that’s not to say they don’t have valid points sometimes, right? 🙂
Well of course I also see the weakpoints to adaptions like Higurashi or even Umineko. But at least they get supervised by their original creator (Higurashi sadly only from Season 2 on), when you compare this to many other adaptions in the anime world (Mushi-Uta…Fate/stay night *cough*cough*) they do a REALLY good job at portraying the overall plot, mood and aim of the original product.
I’m also a big fan of Umineko and of course it is sad that some developments have to be dismissed for an adaption, but it is the absolute stubborness of many fans (especially on Animesuki, I agree with many people on that place being one of the worst) that makes it so hard for new fans to just enjoy the series for what it is…an anime-series.
This glorification of the original work is what makes it so hard, to actually talk about the anime without having to give excuses about why you like it and that is what annoys me the most.
Higurashi did a good job and was only mildly held back by rather akward changes in the first arcs, missing vital plot points without which it was hard to really get a good idea of what was happening.
Umineko so far included everything that was vital to the main mystery, it just let go of minor character development that is mostly adressed in later portions of the story.
Everything that WAS excluded is mainly bitched about by fans, because it makes their favourite characters a bit less likable early on…so I understand the people saying ‘I would have liked them to include that’, but I’m just fed up by people making huge lists of ‘Missing was: point x, point y, point xy, point yx….etc.’ which again leads to endless discussions about why it was missing or why it is bad.
What I wanted to say in this big block of text or wrapped up in a pretty box and tied with a red bow is, I think we all should just stop arguing wether it is better or worse than the original and just start talking about the anime itself…and let the anime-viewers make theories, instead of making them aware how ‘inferior’ the anime is.
I am enjoying the show right now. And good i haven’t played the sound novel yet or i could have joined the whiners right now 😛
That was beginning to grate on my nerves too.
I could also do without the whiners in ‘that certain place’ (Yes, Animesuki, I’m looking at you.) I know of some people who are sick of that place and also turned off by it. Fans like this aren’t uncommon, but I’ve never seen it go so out of hand before.
The best move is to ignore all the ceaseless complaining, even if it makes up 90% of the threads… I think it’s too bad that place is quite well known for whining too because it’s also a good place to go for game information. A good alternative of Animesuki is to go for blog posts like this or other forums. It’s not as bustling with activity but the rate for whiners are pretty low.
As I’ve said before, if you are a manga, novel or visual novel fan, and can’t handle the fact that there will always be some changes in any adaptation, even if it is just pacing, then you should just not watch the adaptations. Some of us like anime and don’t really care for manga, so we really could care less about “how much better” the original was, and we judge the anime by its own merits and flaws. If you can do that too, then we can talk. Otherwise, go to the Barnes and Noble or the Game Stop and leave us non-manga-reading, non-visual-novel-playing, anime watchers to watch our anime.
But it’s true that usually they adapt mangas and animes in a very arguable way. There are tons and tons of anime that have been ruined by just bad adaptations.
I can’t say much about Umineko’s adaptation, but the fact its writer is supervising the anime pruduction could guarantee a better adaptation. Hopefully
But Solaris, my point is that to me, who doesnt read the manga, many of those “ruined” anime were really good, because I didn’t go into it with any expectations, and what I’m simply suggesting is that if you are watching an adaptation of something you first encountered in another media, and you aren’t enjoying it because of the changesm then just quit watching it, instead of ruining it for those who are enjoying it.
I see your point PL, If you didn’t know the source you aren’t spoiled about the story and enjoy that few you got from the anime. But change your point of view for an instant. If you knew more about the story reading its source you’d appreciate better many details that were left out in the animation or that were explained bad. It enriches your experience a lot.
Animes could look the best media to follow a story, but unfortunately they’re the most limited. (it can seem weird)
There are many constraint an anime must fullfill that filters many details in the story it’s made to adapt.
Filters come from linearizing a story that could be nonlinear in a novel, or may be hindered by technical difficulties, or by budget, or by social rules or by target.
Take Allison to Lilia. Why was that anime a failure? Because they wanted to stuff too much in a single 26 eps serie. Direcrtiuon had to cut an axe on every detail in that anime, leaving it without the proper depth.
Should you not read (if you could) the original novel to gain better understanding of the story if you liked it from that crap made anime?
Take Rozen Maiden. The anime features some hints of a potentially deep story, but often indulged itself in silly fillers to lighten the mood. If you don’t read the manga, wich cuts off that siullyness filter, you’d discover a very deep and dark story.
My suggestion is to gain more information on the anime you like (or not) by reading also other medias, playing the games and so on. It will not ruin your experience but enrich it.
I must say that I watched Monster from beginning to end and I liked it a lot. Then I went ahead and downloaded the manga, to check if there are differences and stuff. Now, I didn’t read it all, but from a fast skim I found out that the anime was a perfect adaptation of the original work. Now, maybe it is proof that perfect adaptations DO work great?
Solaris: to put this into a different perspective: Bakemonogatari is an adaptation which tries to keep as much of the original dialogue of the novels it’s based on. 😉
i recommend you to see the scene with natsuhi in episode 4 with the original bgm from the visual novel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0OlbdhZTqk&eurl
vic
Good music, horrible choice. The music washed out the dialogue. It’s very easy to lose track of what everyone is saying because the music is so distracting.
@Perrin: Of course there are many examples of very good adaptations. I cant deny it and i don’t want to deny it! There are also examples of anime being better than their mangas counterparts. One example is Guslinger Girls I.
@Psgels: Well, sadly that’s true!argh!!! /facepalm /RolleLOL
I’m a VN reader, and I think the problem generally lies with the DIRECTION of some of the cuts. The pacing and some of the transitions are kind of jerky. I’m also 100% okay with them skipping the character development scenes, but it’s a little iffy when characters don’t even react to somebody dead/dying/having an asthma attack :/. You’ve got to develop them at least through reactions when stuff like that happens.
These are problems I know I’d have even if I hadn’t read the VN. In fact, when my friend reviews the episode from her non-VN point of view she generally brings up the same points I do, albeit from a less comparative standing. I guess we’re generally very picky anime watchers, though.
(By the way, I also noticed a few issues with occasionally boring characters and pacing in Higurashi Kai. I wasn’t familiar with the source at all in that case but the director was the same.)
You’re right though – anybody making a list by list comparison or complaining about the ACTUAL cuts probably needs to settle down a bit. In their defense they have a right to review a series from their VN-reading eyes just as much as you have the right to review it not knowing the source. And, really, you don’t have to read/get angry at posts from people reviewing it from a different set of eyes (it’s comparable to getting mad because somebody who’s been exposed to a full range of somebody’s songs happens to dislike the one song you’ve listened to and liked).
But in an adaptation, you kind of have to expect cuts. There are tons of manga I’ve seen adapted to anime and I loved them more or as much as the source material, despite cuts.
Anyways, in my opinion, they’re doing a great job with the epic scenes, which keeps it fun for me to watch despite the flaws ^^. Plus, by rushing the “introductory” first arc, they’ve set it up so they can do a spectacular, paced job on the later arcs :).
kaboom, thank you for a measured and well-thought out response. And you are right, people have the right to review it from their perspective as readers of the manga/VN/etc and that’s fine. But what gets to me is that some of these people complain about every change in every adaptation they encounter over and over, and the negativity just gets tired. For example, I think Bokura no was one of the most amazing anime of the decade, with a few tiny plot problems that were very easy to overlook, because the insight into the human psyche was so damn compelling. But, when you read what the readers of the manga had to say, it was almost entirely negative. Now I don’t know if the changes in the story made it better or worse, but either way, the anime was still an absolute masterpiece. If the story from the manga was even better, then so be it, but that in no way detracts from how powerful the anime was. Its the only anime that ever made me cry. So sure, manga readers had a right to say, “if you think this was good the manga was even better” but when all they can talk about is how much the anime sucked, because the director had a slightly different creative vision from the author, and not because anything inherent in the anime itself was bad, those people are essentially just trolling.
It’s one thing to say you dislike it. It’s another thing if you CAN’T stop saying you dislike it. It’s like a broken record stuck on loop. Or Haruhi endless eight. Not sure which is worse.