That really was just an amazing conclusion. It was just stunning, and without a doubt the best ending of the entire season and in my top 3 of best ending of the year. I mean, December has been a fantastic month for Shiki, it turned out to be significantly better than just about anything else that was airing at the moment. This ending was just its crowning moment.
Now, in terms of storytelling there was that point where Natsuno found Tatsumi perhaps a little easily, but in terms of storytelling it was just amazing to see everything just fall apart for both the Shiki and the humans as well. A fire (probably set by the Shiki in a desperate attempt, but more explanation on that will probably follow in the final two DVD Specials) also put an end to the hopes of Toshio to come out of this unscathed either: it’s impossible to explain to the police what happened and if this were set in the real world, it probably would have made the headlines throughout the entire world.
The interesting thing is that strangely enough, the creators refused to kill children under fourteen years old. The ventriloquist is killed off screen, Akira turns out to be alive, and Sunako survives thanks to Seishin’s injury that didn’t turn ot to be serious enough to actually kill him. At the same time though: Tomio Ookawa really was about to kill that girl, and Megumi also got a really gruesome death scene.
Now, I do wonder what the two DVD episodes are going to focus on, though: they’re titled episode 20,5 and 21,5, but this episode showed the preview for an actual epilogue. In any case, I see no way for these episodes to not be utterly amazing. Shiki has just shown how to perfectly make use of Noitamina’s timeslot, with finally another 22 episode series and an array of episodes on DVD only in order to complete the story.
Rating: *** (Awesome)
Seishin turned into a jinrou at the end I think. If I remember right, his eyes changed.
Judging from the Episode Numbers, I believe that it will be the Maeda Motoko arc.
I thought it was Natsuno that started the fire?
As I suspected, the anime’s ending was based on the Light novel (obviously with some differences like Natsuno (who never raised in novels)).
All in all, this was a FANTASTIC show. My favorite show of 2010 no doubt.
Megumi’s death is right up there with the 2nd half of episode 14 as the most disturbing scene in the the anime to me
Wow Sunako survives… super spoiler, i am downloading this chapter now!
Sunako being saved at the last moment by Muroi ruined this for me… I knew it would happen since it was the same last episode but seriously… Yay lets save the loli because shes a little innocent girl
Not to mention Muroi was probably the most useless character in the whole thing… He never did anything relevant, and then suddenly switched to the vampire side and starts helping Sunako for no reason whatsoever…what a pathetic character, and yet he survives while Tomio dies… FUUUU
Cannot contain my rage at this episode really, tried way too hard to make the Shiki survive… The only great thing was Megumi dying a brutal death
Amazing finale!
in the end, no one won
Throughout this entire show I’ve never sympathized with the Shiki, In fact I lol’d quite a bit at Megumi’s death, the only thing I didn’t like was the fact that Sunako and Muroi survive both of them were definitely the worst and most useless characters in the show. Apart from that I think Shiki had the best ending this year.
Wait, didn’t you realize that Seishin became a jinroh? That’s why his eyes were a different color after he rose, why it showed a new kind of blood mixing with his red blood cells when Sunako located him, why the camera focused on him when the jinrou were discussig how a jinrou doesn’t need to stay dead for a few days in order to rise up, why he was able to find his way in the dark, why he was at full health when he saved her at the end, and why he was able to drive away during the breaking of dawn. Shinrou’s a werewolf now.
I was deeply relieved that Sunako survived and that Muroi managed to get at the temple before it was too late, my heart nearly exploded when Ookawa was trying to kill her ( really, she says it times and times again that it’s not like she chose that life, but it’s only natural she doesn’t want to die , or murdered, and besides the other guy just got it wrong, most of them didn’t “kill” , they “hunted for food” ( a completely different concept ), I don’t know, this just doesn’t seem right to me, I know the villagers didn’t have much choice and the vampires were killing them and people were just dying away and all, but I guess I share Muroi’s opinion on the matter, killing because others killed ( somehow even this notion could be questioned: what is particularly disturbing is that when villagers got transformed, their original mind didn’t change whatsoever, they were just the same except for their thirst of human blood, Megumi still wanted to go outside and shine, Toru was still the same kind-hearted guy with a sense of moral values that made him feel prodigiously guilty even if he was also left without a choice, except for letting himself starve to death, but it’s not that easy as people may tend to think, if some kind of phenomena like this had appeared, I don’t know what the majority of people would have done, I don’t think they would have just let themselves die out, at all times humans strove to survive, no matter the methods they had to use ( at war periods …). When Megumi got killed I’ve got the feeling they were just killing her former self, but they also did it for their own survival, that’s what so striking with this series, it’s that it shows the two sides and presents them so as it would arouse our sympathy and understanding. But anyway, I’m just glad Muroi and Sunako , my two favorite characters of the show, managed to get out of the whole thing alive, no matter what the consequences will be, it is just too great to be true, didn’t believe that would happen. But with this, the series put up an open ending somehow, as we don’t know what will happen with them once they leave the village and settle elsewhere. I also got the feeling that Muroi “died” somehow, then transformed into a shiki or maybe he became a jinro without even truly “dying” but the scene when he awakes surprised me as I was totally sure he wouldn’t survive from such a blood loss. With this being said, this was one of the greatest shows ever, something we don’t see quite often, and the ending was just amazing to close up this breathtakingly amazing series!!!!!
Again, Muroi DID transform. He became a jinroh. Read my post above yours.
Amazing ending. The only thing that was disappointing to me was that Akira miraculously turned out to be alive. I hope this will be explained in the 2 extra episodes, because it seemed really unlikely he would be alive after Tatsumi tied him up and left him with a hungry Shiki that had just risen.
This has been an amazing show. Definitely deserves more attention.
Seishin has been completely pathetic for 21 and 9/10 episodes. Almost as useless as Ookami Kakushi’s main character. I’m glad he actually did something for the very first time in his life at the end, but I was really hoping he would die and unfortunately he did not.
@Aline
Tatsumi already said a few episodes ago that he knows Natsuno took Akira away to somewhere.
it may make me a horrible person but there was a point during megumi’s death scene that i let a laugh out.
i mean after they’ve run her over several times, pinned her down with one of the tractors AND crushed her head the guy actually says “lets kill her quickly for her sake”
does anyone know the significance of the scene that played out during the credits? i couldn’t make out who the people getting on the bus were with the thing being so small.
This series definitely makes one think… and not about very many nice things, either. The series went out of its way to make sure that neither side was sympathetic (with the exception of a few characters)… the main protagonists were a nihilist (Natsuno) and a sadist (Ozaki), the Shiki were essentially serial killers who never TRIED anything but killing humans, and the villagers, from the moment they were finally convinced about the existence of the “Shiki” instantly became the sort of racist, xenophopic (or would it be anthrophobic?) mob of murderers that echoes back to the not so distant past in which the Japanese brutally committed numerous war atrocities to the “lesser” Asian peoples they conquered.
That was by far the most disturbing part of the series, along with Ozaki’s callous, sociopathic dissection/mengele-style live autopsy of his shiki-fied wife. You could not watch the ho-hum piling of shiki bodies in mass graves and NOT hear echoes of not only Auschwitz, but incidents that hit much closer to the Japanese, such as the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March.
This is a series that offers little to nothing in the way of hope for morality or humanity… the bullshit pseudo-philosophical atheistic rejection of “God” and justification for Sunako and the Shiki by the Junior Monk at the end rings just as hollow as the actions of the Shiki and the villagers themselves that each side rationalized as “the right thing to do.”
If the goal of this series was to frustrate and anger, it certainly succeeded on me. Was it disgusting? I think so. But my disgust certainly doesn’t come from the comically over the top violence and blood spatter, but from the motivations behind those actions by the characters.
-DA
@DA and Windy
wow, Spot on!
I 1) actually sympathized with both sides
2) LIKED Muroi and Sunako
3) Realized that the villagers became JUST as bad as the shiki when they slaughtered Murois Parents and the other shrine guy who were STILL HUMAN.
Its funny how everyone was like *oh muroi and sunako should have died blah blah blah*, just confirms how sick and twisted most people here could become in a situation like this. . .hell if the world went to shit in a situation like failed economic countries, Argentina of the early 2000s comes to mind, I wouldnt trust any of you, as you probably go mad with bloodlust and just start killing for the sake of killing which this really showed the villagers doing towards the end.
When the zombie Apocalypse comes, I know who Id trust, DA and Windy ;p
Muroi had a great character arc. He went from confused idiot to just plain idiot in this episode.
@qwerty The people who got on the bus were Natsuno’s dad, The fat nurse, and Kanami Yano.
The woman from way back when Tatsumi “Lost his way” when the Kirishiki’s were moving into Kanemasa. She was also shown recently protecting her mother who became a shiki,by giving her mother her own blood. ep 19, about halfway point.
But it’s not finished, episode 23 will be on air the Thursday January 6th, 2010, isn’t it?
Le Gluon: really? Where did you read that?
at the end of each shiki anime, in the final music, you have a preview of the next episode. I was suprised to see a preview of the next episode in the 22. And the next episode is announced on this address:
http://www.zomganime.com/shiki-episode-23
Nice contradiction of the plot in the beginning of this episode btw:
Sunako became quickly out of breath during her sprint, altough she shouldnt even have breathed as a Vampire 😉
Le Gluon: the thing is that for announcements like these, you really should look at official sites and sources and not a silly streaming site that takese any romour without double-checking it. Beyond that site, I really can’t find any other source that claims that a new episode will air next week, so I really wonder where they got that info from.
I share your think, it’s not an official site, take this informatio nwith care, but like me you saw the preview of the next episode in the ending?
What happened to Masao, is he dead? Didn’t see him in the finale. Maybe I missed something in the previous episodes.
@Pook His sister killed him, but we didn’t see the scene.
@Pook, Yeah he was already killed by his sister, He was shown along with Nao and Shizuka as the dead when they’re burning. I was surprised to see that Natsuno’s dad survived, I thought he was a gone. I was also surprised when Kanami Yano boarded the bus, I thought she remained in her house to burn because her dead mother was, well, dead.
Yep, now I remember… I don’t know why I forgot this part ^^’, sorry.
there is no way there is an episode 23 airing next week, this was designed to be a 22 episode series back when they took that extended break before the second half started.
add on the fact that next week starts the new anime season and they wouldn’t be filling up a time slot to air another episode and have another series start late.
Personally I wasn’t sure how to react to the ending itself. I’ll remember this series more for it’s success in creating a cast of characters, both shiki and human that you could empathize with, not to mention the fact that you ultimate have to decide which of the two groups was ever in the right. Series that force you to do this sort of thing have been hard to come by. Like I said I don’t know if I like the ending in particular, but the series was successful in many other ways, which I enjoyed greatly.
I loved the ending, it was so tragic. I love Ozaki’s reflection on how the whole conflict was maybe kind of pointless. I think Natsuno started the fire? Also, Seishin did die, he just rose up afterwards. He became a shiki or a jinrou I don’t know which. Afterall his eyes changed. I just loved loved loved this 😀
I don’t quite agree with the statement that the series made it so that the characters would not attract our sympathy, actually, for me it’s the first series with vampires in it where I really managed to get a grasp on their condition and sufferings, so yes I did feel sympathy for some of them, well, true, they were not that many, but the thing is most of those for whom I couldn’t gather much sympathy and compassion for where those who were turned into vampires during the series’ time slot, because they seemed to have called for what was coming to them: Megumi eager to live some exceptional adventure and despised just all the world around her, never seeing beyond her self-interests, Masao was a selfish scary dude that didn’t care much about anything but his own person, and so on. But those who really did well in attracting our sympathy were those who were vampires from the beginning (of the show), and they’re characters that have much screen time and are particularly shining during it (just what I felt, can’t speak for others): it was first Sunako ( who really showed the pathetic condition she had been put into years ago and stressed the fact that she never asked for it , and that killing others to survive was something she despised and didn’t do just for fun ( feeding yourself out of necessity does not equal brutally murdering, it’s just called surviving), then her step-mother also said something like “ it would be great if we didn’t have to kill in order to live”, that’s what made me look at her quite differently from that moment onward, with just those two characters we can’t say it’s just “a few of them” as they are ones of the main characters, then Tatsumi, at least his devotion to Sunako was really touching, and showed his good side, testifying of him not just being a blood-thirsted monster, Toru, was also one of the characters for whom I felt really sorry, as he was from the beginning till the end a good-natured human being, and when he felt to the underground world, he suffered very deeply from his new state and condition, and his conscience was just destroying his mind, Ritsuko, the green-haired nurse, even attracted admiration and highly due respect, she never lost to her new condition and managed to stay firm against her “destructive” starvation, thanks to her strong determination and will power that guided her along the way, Seishin was a character I felt really sorry for during the whole series, he looked really miserable and sad, just as if he were carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, experienced some tragedy , all along, then his will to remain true to what he believed in really made me admire him, it’s not like he tried to find an escape but rather to accept to accept the tragedies that build one’s fate, the two youngsters Akira and Kaori were characters we felt concerned for, all those make it a lot of characters that gathered sympathy from our side.
Dynamic A: when you say “the Shiki were essentially serial killers who never TRIED anything but killing humans, and the villagers”, do you mean they had a choice, like maybe ask for human blood in hope that the others will just grant their wish and feed them periodically, because I don’t see many other alternatives.
Carbuncle MIchales Jackson elliot: sooo glad to discover that I’m not the only one that actually liked Muroi and Sunako, so pleasant to have found someone that share my opinion about them!
@WstWolf He didn’t get a chance to read your comment. Your comments were posted one minute from each other, and he was probably still typing out his long comment while you already posted yours.
To windy: yes, there was a choice. If the vampire family had the sort of money to afford to buy such a lavish mansion in order to expand their group with eyes on penetrating into big cities to spread themselves, they certainly could have found ways to procure human blood outside of attacks. Aside from that, the manner in which they went about killing, with the aforementioned exceptions, showed just as much a disregard for humanity as the human villagers showed for them.
I’m shocked that people actually like Sunako. She’s just a murderer who chose her own life over the countless lives she took. She’s already had about a hundred years to live, yet acts like she deserves more and keeps killing while playing the victim. Her years should have matured her to the point of knowing she was in the wrong. She didn’t even try other methods, like feeding on animals instead of people. Muroi was full of it when saying he and her were beyond Gods judgment to justify their evil acts. Both should have died, but now they’re probably going to do the same thing to another town of innocents. Sunako lost my pity when revealing how long she’s lived. How much more time and lives does she need until this selfish brat is finally satisfied?
What a finale.
Too bad Muroi and Sunako weren’t slaughtered as well. Considering some very innocent Shiki were killed, seeing a big hypocritical traitor and the worst murderess of them all come out alive is a bit disappointing.
Still, that was an amazing watch. It’s not everyday you see an anime end in such dramatic fashion.
I’m eager to see the manga’s take on all of this.
wow, I just have to comment here. This …really has been one of the most amazing anime series ‘ve EVER seen, alongside greats like Samurai Champloo, Baccano! or Phantom : Requiem for the Phantom. The way the creators chose not to leave us with easy answers was a sign of masterful storytelling. At first, I thought that some of the people commenting on this board were right – why didn’t Shiki just choose not to eat humans, right?
But didn’t they become aggresive beyond the point of sanity otherwise, like Toru in one episode? (can’t remember which)
But then again, Ritsuko seems fine with choosing not to suck blood, and she doesn’t get aggresive…so maybe the original personality counts THAT MUCH and we’re back to “some are just jerks, some are just martyrs” ideology?
Anyway, I just loved the ending. I don’t really know what to think about Sunako. Really mixed feelings about her. But I enjoyed seeing Megumi’s head get bashed by the tractor (AWESOME sendback to the first episode), I pitied Masao during the whole show (loved his character), found Toshio, Natsuno and epic beard-guy THE best anime characters (besides Yojou-han) of the year AND I nearly p***ed myself laughing at Tatsumi’s face when he saw Natsuno holding the dynamite.
Again, amazing series. Thank you, Psgels, for taking the time to review this.
Ritsuko was not fine; she withstood the suffering of resisting her excessive hunger, but we were shown how much the whole process was unbearable, and she almost gave in to her urges and would probably have if Toru wouldn’t have ( on her pleading request) freed the half-dressed nurse that was locked away for her to eat. And her determination and will power are much more stronger than the rest, so we can’t expect that much from someone who’s not that strong (it’s not about being cruel, just weaker , it’s just the same with people, some maybe would have withstood their hunger and just let themselves die ( but that would be just a small amount, as conditioning and state of mind differ from one person to the other, we definitely can’t expect for them all to be the “ martyrs”, it requires much more self –relinquishing that we could possibly imagine, and we can’t except something like this from a child even more.
rob: Do you think it’s that easy to kill yourself? I think she’s afraid of death and cannot inflict it to herself that easily, suicide may be easy for some people, for others it’s something they’ll never be able to do, no matter the pain or despair they’re put into. I don’t think that she pretends to have the right to live more than the years she already lived, but as her state of mind remained the one of a child, she cannot escape of fears of dying or being murdered, it’s not because we have lived a hundred years, that we can jump from a building considering we’ve lived enough, it’s the whole process of letting oneself die that scary her, but her condition doesn’t please her whatsoever, and why would human beings justify the way they hunt animals to eat , while here when a species that stands over humans appear and hunt humans, it’s such a matter for discussion, humans are their FOOD. They have to live somehow, what they do, I don’t see that as any crueler than hunters who go hunting, knowing they can live on tomatoes and rice, actually the second appears more cruel to me, the shiki don’t have any other means of survival, humans in our century do. That’s why I don’t understand why it appears cruel to you all. From our standpoint it may look like it, but from theirs it’s definitely not. But one thing that I didn’t grasp, once the shiki would have changed the whole lot of villagers into shiki or corpses, what would they have done next, would they have attracted passers-by to provide them with blood, cause it would be certainly more convenient to stroll around the village, but they wouldn’t have any food left.
@windy, I saw the scenes between Toru and Ritsuko more like “Toru is trying to get this girl to commit sin so he can validate his own decisions”. Toru was the weak one, not her. Sure, you can analyze it all you want, but the bottom line is Toru gave in, Ritsuko didn’t. Different principles.
Like Natsuno himself put it, the shiki started it first. Everything else is the humans reacting, the shiki reacting to a human chain-reaction, etc.
Of course, the humans are mostly hypocrites, like epic beard-guy shouting about rules to Sunako when he himself killed the hypnotized people, but he wouldn’t have had to resort to that if it weren’t for the shiki stealth-game. And let’s face it, Seishin’s parents & innocent temple people dying is a result of his own refusal to act. Seishin was a tragic “hero”, but his story was nihilism at its best : he was so afraid to act because he didn’t want to face the consequences. In the end he got innocent people killed because of that and he acted twice, once to save himself and once to save Sunako, becoming a double-killer (according to his own life views, because he still isn’t a “killer” to me).
I never said that Ritsuko was weak; I said she was, on the opposite, the strongest character of the show, and I emphasized it, as she has the determination and willpower to resist her hunger!!! The weak one, I thought I made it clear in my comment, is of course and without a doubt Toru (I just said he was good-natured but also very weak, actually I saw him as the weakest character of the series!) I just said he was not evil but definitely weak, I completely agree with that and I exposed all this in my comment, you just misunderstood it. Where in my comment did you read that I called RITSUKO weak?! Come on, it’s the strongest character of the whole series, and I said that I admired that willpower and self-sacrifice of hers, and that not many people if faced with the same circumstances would react in the same admirable way. I hope now all is clear!
And also to all those who claim that Seishin didn’t act, what do you mean, he should have taken arms and turned the village upside down to eliminate each and every shiki he ambushes. I don’t think that true action is necessarily something you do with your hands, but maybe more something you think out well and tend to follow, he wasn’t inactive or useless during the series, but his actions were those of his heart and soul, his mind was always at work and would think everything through and analyzing it, for me, he’s one of those characters who shined by his spiritual conception oh what was happening around him, he took action, but he did according to his own beliefs and ideals, and not just so he could merge in with the flow of villagers going on a rampage against the shiki and slaughtering them without an ounce of mercy. Actually, his actions were not devoid of meaning but were quite effective in their own way, not the slightest bit more inconsistent that those of the villagers, what those did, they took their weapons and slaughtered as much as they could, spilled and spilled again blood, becoming even more frightening that the shiki they feared.
I really wished Sunako and Seishin would just stay inside the burning chapel/church. Sotoba is rotten and it was the Shiki’s who brought it out. The instigator was Sunako. When I saw Seishin drove away into the National Highway that finality feeling is lost.
Also Natsuno should have gotten more screentime. He played a vital role in the Shiki’s extermanation… but at the end his inclusion seems almost like an afterthought. Pity.
Animators didn’t want to screw up by giving him too much anime-original screentime… and we all know how it ends when you are too enthusiastic with fillers.
(anime took Light Novel ending and in Light novels, Natsuno stayed dead. Manga, which turned him into a Shiki, will probably give him a better role later on)
windy, I am saying that I pretty much agree with Toshio re: the line “A stupid decision, worthy of Seishin”. Seishin blabbers on and on about the “intent to kill”, but when it counts, he completely realises that somehow, his siding with Sunako could count (even by his standards) as intent to kill towards the villagers.
And “true action”? He pretty much did nothing except talking to Sunako at night and refusing to agree with everything Toshio said during the day. Not to mention the pivotal scene where Toshio, his old friend, calls him to help him clean up his wife’s “remains”. He fails to see Toshio as a man who’s sacrificed so much for everyone’s sake (albeit for revenge as well, crossing the moral event horizon), and just…turns around and leaves, looking like he had a BSOD. Yes, I know Toshio’s wife was “new” and she had no knowledge of the “rules”, but it’s not murder if there’s no LIVING being, and that thing on the table WASN’T his loved one anymore. I find THAT lesson a valuable one if the zombie/vampire/blah apocalypse ever comes. Without people like Toshio, humanity would be wiped out. Sometimes, you have to act against your principles. The rest is just…talk.
Seishin didn’t help Toshio because he was against the whole idea of the massacre, why would he help his friend doing something that is the fruit and right consequence of it. I don’t picture someone who’s against those killings, just swiftly obey his friend whose behaviors he sees as pointless and outrageous and help him in his machinations, which would make him look like a hypocrite of his own ideals. But, well, something that also has to be taken into consideration is that Seishin wanted to free himself of his fate as a monk at the villagers’ service, and for once he managed to return his sleeves and choose his own destiny, and that alone is action enough. But well, , maybe his decision was also influenced by his grudge against the villagers, that’s quite possible, his character is more complex than what it looks like anyway, it would have been great to read those novels, maybe some complementary answers could be found about all this. Oh, and well, for the “living” part you’re mentioning, you have to admit that first they can’t be considered as dead; they didn’t become corpses and second they have red blood in their veins and most of all a mind and a brain that is working and they also susceptible of feeling emotions ( remember Sunako when she cried over Shizuru’s tragic ending), all this makes them more than just a bunch of soul-less corpses, that’s why it is murder even if this notion may seem not to apply to the case, it’s definitely is, considering it otherwise is just a way to deturn from the despicable truth.
What’s shown in the ending is not an actual preview. This time the Japanese beneath only means ‘A few days later’. As much as I liked the ending and the series as a whole I’m still looking forward to those DVD specials though.
Windy:cowardice doesn’t justify one’s actions. Sunako was scared of dying and took countless lives as a result. She is in no way correct. Death is all a monster like that deserves. Btw how is there no other alternative for food? The shiki can’t try getting blood from animals? If that wasn’t possible, they could at least resort to feeding once off a person and then traveling somewhere else, or even take blood from a blood bank. It would certainly be inconvenient, but that’s better than being a murderer. You say humans are crueler since they don’t need to eat meat, but at least some are willing to be vegeterians. The shiki didn’t even try. There wasn’t one instance of them thinking they could survive off the blood of something other than human.
You speak about murder, but for the shiki killing humans is not considered as murder. The same way that humans who kill animals don’t think they committed murder, that’s why our views diverge I guess. You speak about murder, it’s a term people use to define the killing of those who stand on an equal footing with them, if not the humans who kill other species are also murderers and those who take profit of it are just the same. If the shiki were killing their own kind, then that would be murder and condemned, but they actually care for their kind and community, Sunako did, that doesn’t make her a monster, human people care in the same way for their community, and if they found themselves on an isolated island with no other means of survival than to hunt, some would not, but the great majority of the people concerned would take their weapons and hunt for their own good, not thinking one second – that it’s something that should be highly condemned and that their moral principles should lead them towards the way of starvation. But ironically, the view people generally have is way different: they would rather take them for heroes who managed to remain alive and those would be filled with a feeling of satisfaction to have survived. It is the same for the shiki and humans, it’s not murder as humans are inferior to them (as they eat them, and no, I don’t even think they could eat other species, I think that’s a newly provided version of vampires who can live on animal blood, originally that was not the case, but this could also be considered as murder, as humans – or other animals, they would all stand at the same line of the alimentary chain, so what difference would it make to them? That’s why I don’t really understand your views on Sunako. And she’s not a coward, she has the mind of, okay not that little, but still of a little girl, and it is quite normal for children to fear death without them being considered as cowards, one of humans’ primitive instincts. But one thing is certain is that Sunako was once a human, so yes, it must have been difficult for her to kill them at first, but then she reached the stage where compassion can no more be admitted if not “ then you should hate and kill yourself”, if she was filled with the feeling of remorse each time she had to kill some people she wouldn’t have survived for that long, I think that’s one of her qualities Tatsumi admired the most, her perseverance to go forward and not fade away and not just to resign herself and die.
People, the reason why the shikis did not go to a big city and only suck blood from people instead of killing them is because Sunako wanted to turn an entire secluded town into a town of shikis. Sunako wanted company – that’s all. She wanted to walk in the town freely without having to caution against others. For her own selfish reason, she resorted to commit massacre of the humans, while actually she did not have to go that far to survive. In the end, she was no more than a hypocritical murderer, and I agree that she shouldn’t have survived.
Philosophically, mentally, and morally, there is a huge difference between killing animals for food and killing humans.
If an intelligent, sentient alien species with culture, emotions, rationality, etc landed on this planet and just so happened to taste delicious when slathered in BBQ sauce and popped on the barbie, it would be wrong to eat them.
I know you may argue that the above point is a strawman, but consider that in vampire literature since Stoker there have been numerous examples of vampire subcultures and groups that found other means to attain human blood to sate their uncontrollable hunger aside from murder. A group with as many seeming connections as Sunako’s certainly could have tried other avenues, but for their own, very SELFISH reasons, they chose to massacre, manipulate, and depopulate an entire village of people.
-DA
Yes, completely right, Sunako wanted company, to forget her loneliness. Shizuru also wanted a village where they could be “at home”, they could walk around freely and have fun, without standing out, just among other shiki ( also that will transformed into it for that purpose, those who will be the “ chosen ones”), completely agree that they moved into the village not only for getting fresh blood, Sunako wanted more company and friends, comrades and allies.
But I disagree with the rest, and it’s just humans’ subjective thoughts, that human community and society established: that to murdering human beings is a sin, from a more objective perspective, nothing makes stands us apart from animals ( just because human people has a more developed brain doesn’t make them untouchable god-like species) I mean in our society, what you stated above is totally true and I agree with that but it’s just a universal principle because we never experienced some other laws that could have been established and torn down ours . We only know it because humanity established that inviolable rule and carved it into stone, but for any other community that would elevate themselves above us, that’s completely irrelevant and meaningless. But well the great thing with that series is that everyone sees it differently, and I can see what you mean even if my view on the matter differs.
But I guess some of us stand out for Sunako because she mesmerized us with her vampire spell!
I mean if everything she said was just an act, then we fell right into her snare, but I don’t know why, but I believe that everything she said was true, that everything she said to Tooru or Muroi san were her genuine feelings and not just self-justification or made up story, and what I heard from her story really made me see her with different eyes and sympathize with her, like that innocent side of her personality and feel really sorry for her ( despite everything she did or more appropriately “planned”, as she organized the whole strategy behind the curtains), and no she didn’t deserve to die, that’s what I think at least, and I was glad to see she didn’t ( I guess the author who wrote the story ( I guess it followed the original story, isn’t it? If it was the anime-original ending, then “the creators”), also couldn’t bring himself (themselves?) to inflict to her a tragic ending!)
or just because she’s a loli. The stupid priest falls into a loli trap. The same goes to many viewers.
Seriously, her ending is stupid.
But more stupid is people who think that killing pigs is the same as killing human.
Urgh whenever I read windy’s comments I get more and more confused about what he/she perceives. All I see is “blah blah blah I’m right cause my view is always correct” -_-
Personally I do think that Sunako is somewhat pitiable, but that does not justify her actions. Sure, she’s a child, but it is only her body that is a child’s. Her mind has obviously fully matured (her try-to-act-emo-and-poetic way of speaking is very telling) and she has lived longer than any wise human being. What I disliked about her is that she does not show any signs of regret. I mean, c’mon, it shows how much of a self-centered bitch she is! She always says that she doesn’t want to kill people but in the end it’s really all about herself and that she wants to live. IMO she didn’t deserve to live. Dying is obviously a scary thought, I don’t deny, anyone would be scared shitless at the thought of a stake being driven through their heart, but we are all human right? As humans,wouldn’t you be afraid of a vampire raid? Losing your loved ones one by one. Isn’t that scary? Nao-chan’s scenario told us that it was all very cruel. She killed her family in promise that they would rise up and become one of them, but they didn’t rise, so all those deaths were for nothing. She became a murderer, there and then. And it’s all for her own selfish desire to convert her entire family into Shikis to join her. Just like what Sunako intended to do to the whole village of “nakama”(s)
I agree with Natsu when he said that what he did not like was the fact that shiki did as they pleased, reviving people and claiming them as their own kind. SELFISH BITCHES! The okiagari villagers were coerced to consent feeding on their friends and neighbours, in which Tatsumi justified their actions as survival. If they didn’t follow suit, they wouldn’t fit in anywhere! Even Megumi (whom is everyone’s biggest enemy O.O) expressed her desire for freedom from the Kirishikis. Before her big escape she exclaimed, “I no longer have a master” while looking at the Kirishiki’s mansion. Sunako wasn’t creating a village man, she was creating a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! Kiddin. But IMO, it just isn’t right. (Poor Toru and Rit-chan)
What the villagers did was not right, but in a way it was retaliation. What, would it be better if they lined up and let the shiki kill them off one by one? Sure, they were cruel blahblahblah. But it was just the shiki extermination scenes that were epic gory. If there was an easier was to kill shiki, say something like french kissing them would put them to a painless sleep, I’m sure that the humans would have done so. All the talk about them being too brutal, bullshit, its called SURVIVAL. The shikis killed the humans to survive, so humans kill shikis to survive. Now, what’s wrong with the picture?
** Oh and I agree that Muroi was just an emo bastard who was utterly useless. Poetic my ass. He was fosure emo!
It so heat up here…
I do agree that whatever reasons are, they do not justified for the Shikis’ action of killing people (including Sunako). After all, it is a matter of choice. Everyone makes their choice and he/she should take full responsibility to his/her choice.
I do agree this is all about the battle of survival, but it is for either the Shikis and the human.
Many people say that they should suck animal blood. However, isn’t the point here they will die without human blood? Try to steal blood from the blood bank? Common guy, it is not that easy. The security of all blood bank would increase to catch the thieves, will it not?
I do agree with Sunako is so selfish, but I disagree with the fact that she is an adult.
Sunako is a child, both physical and mental. Once she stopped aging, her physical body (of course including the brain) would stop growing. Living a long life and reading tons of book can not make her brain develop into the full mature brain of a adult. And so, I agree with what Windy talk about Sunako.
Finally, I do believe everyone in this anime deserve a chance to life, not death.
Alex: For one, I didn’t say my view was right, I just exposed my opinion on the matter, and I also said that the most amazing thing with this series is that it is up to everyone to interpret it as they see fit. My intention was definitely not to preach some sermons on the matter, and it up to your own judgment to interpret it one or another way, I didn’t impose my views just defended them. I also said that I did understand other points on this subject. I also didn’t really like the way Tatsumi was manipulating the villagers (probably on Sunako’s orders, but I somehow got the impression that it was Tatsumi’s own way of dealing with things, but I guess it was for her orders as he complied with one and every of her command), once they were just turned into shiki, it was an awful act of emotional manipulation, and the way they were forced to attack the people they were close to ( Tooru was forced to attack Natsuno for not letting his own family die), actually I found it quite terrible and disturbing in its own way, even Megumi’s feelings for Natsuno( the only thing that made me sympathize with her) were used to manipulate her for their own benefits and needs, and I don’t advocate it. I just somehow tried to understand their side and managed in doing so, because well, just what I think eh, just like human community wants to expand and build out a village, the same goes for them, actually after years of solitude, it is quite normal for them to wish for more company and friends, because humans also tend to organize their lives in a community and not just live alone on an isolated from the whole social world place. I think they longed for it to, and I don’t think we have the right to judge them as monsters just because their own established laws or principles don’t correspond to our way of viewing things (transposed in the same situation, we don’t actually know what we would have become, human morals don’t really apply here, but yet again it is just one way of seeing things, not an absolute truth whatsoever. I see their actions as a way of surviving both concretely by drinking human’s blood, and also surviving to their unjust state of loneliness, rejection and abandonment. I don’t think that we’re in any position to judge them without ever experiencing what they have experienced for more than a hundred years!!! We also don’t know anything about those years and what happened in details (I mean we could interpret that as we want), they could have tried to be accepted by humans, could have tried to seek other means of survival than sucking human’s blood ( I guess they had plenty of time for that and don’t think they’re so stupid!), actually we know really little about them ( too little) to direct any sharp judgment, that’s how I see it. And totally agree with Potato, that what was mentioned above on what they could do other than attacking humans is not just as simple as it seems, firstly because even if they’re rich, they don’t have the control over the human world to provide them with any blood they need from the blood bank, secondly I don’t think that the human people would agree on sharing their blood with others ( some would of course but others may not have agreed on that, sometimes humans can be just as selfish, besides there’s also the question of solitude that is not to be excluded). Also agree with Potato that it is the battle for survival for both sides, and everyone does things according to their own principles, feelings and choices, as well as with the fact that Sunako is selfish, I don’t say otherwise (but what would you expect from a rich ojo-sama raised in a wealthy western-styled mansion with her parents and servants to comply with every of her whims or needs! She’s quite ego-centric indeed! But also yes, immature in her mind, as it didn’t develop past the stage it was in where her former self was obliterated to give way to her present state.
And also well said Potato, that “everyone in this anime deserves a chance to live”, that’s exactly what I think too.
I don’t know if I’ve been so frustrated with an anime, well this episode specifically. THAT STAKE SHOULD HAVE GONE INSIDE SUNAKO. But no, that shiki helper, Muroi, goes and ruins the ending. It was so dissapointing that he kills the man about to finish off Sunako.
And even prior to that, this man kills Muroi’s family because he thinks they’re collaborators? That was too much. I know it got a bit crazy, but the villagers didn’t lose it completely to kill off innocent women and whatnot.
Not to mention, that the ending where a vampire in a suitcase is being escorted by a human is not the first one I’ve seen.
Sunako should have been killed, or should have decided to stay in that fire and die, or maybe join the jinro’s in that pit.
I’m interested by the intensity of the feelings this series aroused, and I’d like to give my own point of view on it.
First of all, I think that if we want to take the story seriously at all, we must be able to feel some sympathy for the situation of the shiki, and we must be willing to see moral dilemmas both in what the shiki must do to survive, and what the townspeople who are still alive must do to survive. It is clear that the story asks us to do both of these things. We can simply reject the story completely, and say that it has failed to make a convincing case for these basic points; but then there is no point in arguing about what should or should not happen; we are simply saying that the story is not coherent enough to be worth thinking about.
For that reason, I feel that inventing “nice” alternative ways for the shiki to survive is evading the issue. The story may or may not have made a strong enough case for this, but we are clearly intended to accept as a premise that the shiki must kill in order to survive. If we don’t accept this premise, then the story is a kind of gratuitous exercise in horror, with little to distinguish it from a slasher film whose only purpose is to frighten us.
Similarly, if we feel that no matter what choices they face, the shiki must simply reject killing humans because it is evil, and any of them who fail to do so are not worthy of any consideration, then the story has failed for us. Its main distinction from other stories of the undead is that the undead do retain their personality characteristics from their previous life, unlike the mindless killers the undead become in most zombie stories. Tooru is obviously intended to be a likable character when alive, so if we simply dismiss him by condemning his weakness and saying that he should be as strong as Ritsuko once he is undead, we are refusing to take the story seriously.
Finally, if we refuse to accept the possibility of the humans becoming an unattractive, bloodthirsty mob in the process of stopping the shiki from killing them off, then we are evading the point of the story. I have to admit I found the exaggerated bloodthirstiness unconvincing and manipulative; the shiki could as easily have been killed by forcing them to remain exposed to daylight, or by using the power that religious artifacts have over them. One can argue that the stakes were actually a form of kindness, since they killed quickly rather than subjecting the shiki to an extended and very painful death from exposure to light, and I think this was the intent of the author; but all that gore splashing around still feels manipulative to me. Once again, however, if one is to take the story seriously at all, one must accept the gore as necessary.
There is one element of the story which I am surprised no one has mentioned: the Cain and Abel story Seishin is writing, and the attempts of the author to draw parallels to this story. One can dismiss this as pretentious window-dressing, with no real substance; but it seems to me that if we do not take it seriously, then we are again rejecting the story completely.
This is already far too long, so I won’t add my own personal interpretations of what moral choices the author is asking us to come to grips with. I would be interested, though, in other people who have written comments here starting with these basic assumptions and seeing what they make of the story if we give it the benefit of the doubt and accept them as premises.
I’ve also come to realize somehow that the story Seishin was writing echoed with the main story of the series, however I’m not so sure of the interpretations that could be made out of it, first I tried to lay a comparison between Seishin and Toshio, the divergence in the choices they made seemed to be somehow the result of their contrasting feelings about what’s happening and the means to employ in order to bring the chaotic situation to an end. But then, Seishin started to talk about how the brother Cain actually killed was no one else but himself, what I would be inclined to think is that he was talking about his own attitude towards life, fate and the condition of a human being, split apart between the duties that have been bestowed upon him and his desire to break those chains, and in order to break free he has to kill his former self, as if he doesn’t, he will be forced to remain a prisoner of his own existence, that may be why it is looked as a necessity of “survival”, a survival in accordance with his beliefs and choices. But we may also look at it from a religious standpoint, as in mythology , Cain was also forced to follow the instructions of God, and live according to God’s rules (and not feel any jealousy for his brother Abel), never taking into account his own emotions or feelings, denying and rejecting them ( here, Seishin is also a priest, was forced to be according to rules and customs of his family, he had to follow his tasks ( and obeying God, without God ever replying to his prayers, and he must have been extremely despaired at one point of his life if he tried to put an end to his own life, Sunako was rejected the same way, even if she didn’t desire to become a creature of the night, she was forced into it and God never answered any of her prayers , and rejected her, that’s what may have made Seishin realize that in our life we have to live ourselves and help ourselves without relying on Divine providence that supposedly is to be listen and obeyed but actually can do nothing in the existence we lead, cannot change the conditions of our existence or protect us from the external world we live in. Then again, there must be an infinite variety of interpretations for that story.
All your comments are very long. To make things short, there’s only one thing the author wants to say: humans are self centered, and bad by nature. As Tonio said, shikis kept their memories and human nature, they aren’t just some brainless zombies. They are human, undead but human. You can replace the villagers by Palestinians and the Israeli by shikis. You can empathize with both side, both have valuable arguments, but they can’t coexist because they have opposite way of living. That’s what humans are.
Yes, that’s rights. The point is to show the cruel game that has been played over and over again. No right or wrong. The groups didn’t mix and there is was no way to resolve it. Anyways eating meat and fish does seem cruel. Eating veggie is too. Oh just because they have no nerves ( or do they), it is okay to rip leaves off of plants to eat. But well every living thing deserves to survive. Another message in this is to take what you need and be a little more compassionate. Lions kill each other for territory. We people just have more power. We can do more harm than other animals. We need to show restraint, or end up like the shiki ( that’s being harsh but yeah).