Whoa, that was intense. It’s one thing to show gore and decapitate random goons in the most gruesome manners, but when it’s done 1) to a well loved character 2) very detailed and 3) doesn’t make the gore too extreme and actually tries to make it believable… it makes so much more impact. Just as this episode showed. That scene in which Ed was entirely impaled by a small steel beam was hard to watch at times, that’s how well it was portrayed.
In any case, about the rest of this episode, I’m getting more and more excited about this series. The past number of episodes have really been a roller-coaster ride. In this episode, Kimblee also stops being nice, and reveals that he’s seen through Ed’s plans (probably in the really bad way in which eh tried to cover up for Al).
The two remaining chimera also gave a bit more insight into why the first two deserted: while they’re obeying Kimblee and all, they do seem to hate the guy. Quite reasonable, I can imagine how many people must be unhappy with their bosses. Since their lives have basically been ruined, I can imagine how they’re easy to desert if they run into someone whose ideals they support (like what happened with Ed in this episode). One thing that I’m noticing in a lot of anime is that the random goons have no personality whatsoever. It’s great to see that this series is trying to change that with characters like them: some of the guards indeed just carry out their jobs and are loyal, but there are others who have a different personality and set of ideals.
Rating: *** (Awesome)
FMA really describes the situation of the soldier quite nicely – caught between the orders from a (evil) supervisor and the heroes who ask them to think for themselves. In the past 9-10 chapters of the manga, this point has been brought up a number of times. If the series continues to adapt the manga faithfully (as of now, this is not being done) – then it will be a real treat to watch.
Anyways, the next episode will start “the beginning of the (long) end”. All the buildup will start paying off from episode 45 (or so).
I almost started CRYING in the scene with Ed… you know, the screaming… and everything… it was so well done, and SO horrible to watch. đ EEED!
FMA is getting R-E-A-L-L-Y exciting now. Man, I love this show.
egress is right. It’s hard to imagine that the last 40+ episodes have been build up for the climax, but soon we are going to get to everything the series has been preparing us for.
I am not joking when I say that the climax of this series is going to ride out for at least a solid 10 episodes. I can’t WAIT for this stuff.
On another note, egress, how has the series not been adapting this faithfully? The anime has been going with the manga almost page for page. Only un-needed details have been being left out, so I don’t understand why you consider it not being faithful
The lion Chimera (Heinkel) is actually one of my favorite minor characters. The fact that Arakawa pays so much attention to minor characters is one of the reasons I love FMA so much.
Well, some scenes (which IMO were poignant) are being left out. I am not going to enumerate all of them, but I will mention one (for the benefit).
Remember, the Ishival massacre flashback episode? Armstrong was crying, holding a dead child in his arms. The few events after that were cut. What happened in the manga was this: Basque Gran looked at him. A few panels later, the superior ordered the alchemists the restart the massacre. Basque Gran (and others) realized that the superior was clearly in the wrong and refused. After a small brawl, Basque Gran took a rifle, shot the superior on the field and bemoaned “Oh no! Such a fine general lost to friendly fire!”. The others agreed. Basque Gran (second in command until then) now took over the dead superiors place. The massacre stopped.
Now this is not a major scene, but it would have been so much nicer had such a scene been adapted. It would have taken, like what – 2-3 minutes? There are other scenes like this (scattered here and there) which ought to have been present. The show, not only the subtle (subversive) messages present in the series but also add depth to the characters.
Yes, those scenes were very powerful. But I can understand why they were cut. I don’t think their subtraction from Brotherhood has taken away from the overall feel of the show. I do wish that the part with Knox’s family had been fleshed out a little more, because they honestly only left out a minute or so of his part, but it really packed a punch in the manga.
But I have to say that I am not dissapointed with Brotherhood in the least. What they have animated has been near flawless, and they have truly brought the story to life. Yes, the Ishbal massacre was better in the manga, I do have to agree, but if I had the choice to read the manga or watch Brotherhood, I would choose to watch brotherhood. Greed/Ling was great, the part when Ed finds Al’s body in the gate was really perfect, and I was especially surprised at how well they executed Hohenheim’s backstory in the last episode. Not to mention that the fight with Envy within Gluttony’s fake gate was perfect.
egress: FMA does not even comes close to describing the condition of being a soldier. The “follow evil orders or think for yourself” theme is a gross simplification of matters, and it’s also unoriginal (and boring, at that). It’s a cop-out: it characterizes one side as good and the other as evil so as to avoid forcing the watcher to actually deal with real moral issues, and it also fails in actually depicting any part of the human condition.
That having been said, this is a shounen anime, so I don’t think anyone is expecting anything like that. But please, please, please, don’t try to make this series sound deep. It’s like trying to extract some sort of social commentary from Spiderman. See it for what it is, not what you want it to be.
@egress:
“(as of now, this is not being done)”
What are you talking about? It hasn’t been 100, but it’s never been below 90% in terms of adapting the manga. This is a pretty damn close (and very good) adaptation of the manga.
Jake this series is actually very deep. A lot of thought was put on to it, it explores a variety of themes which aren’t frequently scene in anime, as well as putting in a lot of subtle references to worldly philosophy
I guess I should read replies first before typing.
Keep in mind that most new fans watching this show will not even remember who Basque Grand is and thus having that scene wouldn’t have very much of a point. While, I definitely think Ishbal would have been awesome at 2 episodes, it just wasn’t needed.
You know with hit movies, people go “For more insight on this minor character, read the book it was adapted from.”
They’re just little extras that please if you read the manga after watching to see a bit more detail. So, I don’t mind it for that.
What I do mind is, why did they feel the need to Abridge it? That’s what I don’t get. I would have loved to have seen Izumi’s episodes have at least one more (to include Maison and all that) and the Ishbal flashback.
I understood the Izumi one, it’s been done, let’s get to the new stuff. But Ishbal…I don’t even see why they had to cut it down. That’s what I don’t understand, there’s no real reason. A two episode flashback about the biggest event that practically set most of the story in motion deserves at least that much. And…to buy a little more time for the manga to get enough ahead. It’s that, I have a problem with.
Though, other than that, it’s been great.
lets talk about this episode and how badass Kimblee was
@ Jake
No one is trying to say FMA is trying to depict reality, it main purpose is entertainment. But just writing it off as any typical shounen story is ridiculous. And no things are not as B/W as you make them out to be. Take the characters of Roy, Scar, and Riza as examples.
Okay Jake, I won’t try to make this series deep. Cause it already is, I don’t need to try. đ
I’ll admit that FMA is much better than the typical shounen series (Bleach, Naruto); I never said anything to the contrary. However, in the grand scheme of things, are the characters really that unique? How are they so unique?
Some of you say the series is “deep.” Well, can you give me examples? What are some themes not commonly “scene” in anime? You can’t just go making claims without supporting them. (By the way, don’t compare it to other anime or other shounen series; I don’t care about its relative merits. Also, what is “worldly philosophy”, by the way? Is there “unworldly philosophy”? Is the distinction important in idea you’re trying to convey? Don’t just put big words out there and hope they make sense.)
I can’t question your tastes. If you like it, who am I to say you shouldn’t? But I can question your rationale. That’s what I’m doing.
@Kim: I guess I could elaborate a little more. I’m not disagreeing with you, necessarily. The characters aren’t “black and white,” like you said. But they’re also not all that special. FMA has relative merit (in the genre of shounen anime), but I don’t think it fares very well if you compare it to non-shounen anime, or television/film in general.
Roy is portrayed as a character working for an organization, discovers some dark secrets about it, and then works to cleanse the organization. Scar is a revenge-bent “good guy” with a unfortunate past. Riza… she’s obedient? The Roy archetype comes up everywhere (one example is that guy from Avatar). The Scar archetype also comes up everywhere (see pretty much every revenge flick ever made). And I think Riza is a pretty secondary character anyway.
Okay, well as far as I have seen, FMA is the only anime I’ve seen to deal with themes of racism without getting preachy about it or turning it into a message out of a children’s book.
Second, there are the themes of family explored through the dichotomy of Hohenheim/Father. Also, there are some homonculi that are surprisingly well thought out, but saying so would spoil it for psgels.
I will admit that some characters, while extremely likeable, do not have an extreme amount of depth. Scar and Roy are certainly there to preach about revenge and whatnot. But considering the amount of characters, this can be forgiven IMHO.
Then there is the Truth. This is basically the “collective unconscious” that many other anime’s like to explore. But I feel very strongly about it in the case of FMA, because FMA delves into the consequences of experiencing the Truth, as well as how the Truth contributes to the overall flow of life in the show.
FMA has a very strongly realized setting, and I’d have to say that that is where a majority of it’s depth comes from.
I think that the thing with Full Metal Alchemist is not necessarily that it has one or two particular characters with a lot of depth, but it’s the bigger picture: everything combined that makes it special. In a way, it’s the same as Baccano: individually the characters may not seem that important, but togethter they make one hell of an anime.
@ Jake I am going to take each of these characters one at a time
Scar: The revenge character…yes but often this character is seeking revenge. Scar has committed murder and that is something that has to be dealt with even though he is now “good”.
As for Roy I don’t know what Avatar you are referring to (cartoon or film) but there is no character like him in a program for young adults. Again Roy committed war crimes and killed innocent people, yet we still look at him as one of the good guys. More importantly he gets more development than any other adult character I’ve seen in a shounen story. He is not just the mentor to the teenage character but has his own goals.
As for Riza I am putting her in the same category as Roy, since she also committed war crimes. There is also something that the anime left out dealing with her tattoo & Roy’s ability (I won’t say more in case the anime includes it later…it should have been during the Ishval arc).
And on another note FMA is a series for young adults, so I am comparing it to other series for young adults. Sure there are things out there with more complex themes & characters. But these things are usually not aimed at kids.
@20: this show might be for ‘young’ adults, but the story behind the story is not something they would understand. The whole occult alchemy is not for kids or young adults since they wouldn’t understand its real meaning. If you look at this series with more occult knowledge it is actually very complex indeed! While the characters may not have extensive depth, the back-backgroundstory does in my opinion. I guess you need to see it in another perspective to get that.
Wow, awesome discussion going on in here. Here, we go… đ
8: I guess I was misunderstood. What I meant was that the “thinking for yourself” gave the characters (who simply happened to be a soldier, could have been a moe-blob for all I care :p) more depth. That said, this part (thinking for yourself) will only happen after 10-12 episodes. Lets see if it gets adapted.
9: I never denied that. this adaptation does leave out very little (especially in the past few episodes). But if the series wants to give depth to these little characters, then even the missing 10% has to be adapted. To give an example: the Dr. Knox scenes did not leave a lot of impact simple because some of his lines from the manga were snipped. I daresay that his character did not leave much impression on those folks who have just seen the anime. On the other hand, the part where Knox breaks down and cries was (IMO) one of the most powerful scenes in the manga.
In case the anime does take the 90% route, there is a good chance that the lines which will make the upcoming characters deep, will just fade away as just “yet another side character with 3-4 lines of dialogue”.
15: I am also going to go ahead and say that FMA is not very deep. However, the plot is very rich and the characters do come across as very human. And I wouldn’t also categorize FMA as 100% shonen – to me this series is one that will make a normal shonen pick up seinen manga. That is to say, FMA is like a bridge between shonen and seinen.
@everyone: Okay, first, when I said I don’t care about its relative merits, I meant it. I don’t care if it’s the first anime to deal with racism, because there are so many films and books and everything else out that deal with racism. In order for anime as a genre to be respected, it needs to hold its ground amongst all visual arts. Otherwise, it’ll never attain anything more than a cult following.
Likewise, I don’t care about its intended age group. I’ve already said that it’s better than its contemporaries in shounen anime. What I’m questioning is its worth in the universal scheme of things. I mean, how many of you out there are children?
@Keith: “FMA is the only anime Iâve seen to deal with themes of racism without getting preachy about it or turning it into a message out of a childrenâs book”
There is nothing deep to be said about racism, except for possibly an analysis of its causes. In FMA, the cause of racism is a group of supernatural beings trying to take over the world. Real deep. Perhaps what you meant is that FMA deals with some more “dark” themes. Sure, but does that make it good?
“Second, there are the themes of family explored through the dichotomy of Hohenheim/Father”
I believe you’re talking out your ass. Explain this more, because it really doesn’t make any sort of sense.
“Then there is the Truth.”
Everything said surrounding the “Truth” was a load of babble. None of it made sense. Don’t think about it too hard. Seriously, if you think that’s “deep”, go read a book.
“FMA has a very strongly realized setting”
I’m gonna go ahead and agree with everyone else that said FMA is not meant to be realistic.
Also, so far, none of the things you’ve mentioned are even remotely philosophical. Or very worldly.
Here’s what I think. FMA clearly contains some more “dark” or “adult” themes than other shounen anime. You realize this, and you’re correct in that. Where you’re incorrect is that it’s “deep,” or intellectually substantial.
@Kim: I think we’re talking about different things. I’ve already said I don’t care about its merits relative to shounen anime (because I think most shounen anime is garbage). Also, the details you mentioned don’t contradict my claims that those three characters still fall within frequently-used archetypes. I’m not saying the characters are “bad”, but they certainly don’t make FMA unique (again, not relative to the shounen genre). You said that yourself, so I feel like we’re essentially in agreement.
@psgels: I do not believe that a lot of mediocrity equals excellence. On a more personal note, I enjoyed Baccano, but it turned out to be a fairly forgettable show (also, its characters are definitely not its forte). FMA: Brotherhood is probably similar, except I’m not even enjoying it.
@Jake: Just because some themes have been explored before doesn’t stop them from being deep. Even if racism and family bonds and the moral conflicts going on within a character’s heart have been played out a million different times in hundreds of stories that doesn’t stop it from being deep if it’s done well. And FMA does it extremely well. I don’t know what you mean by “original themes” or what you have against archetypes. There’s no such thing as an original theme in story telling and all characters have their base in an archetype. The difference lies in whether or not you can portray these things in a unique way, and that’s where FMA excels as a story.
Oh yeah, I’ll be the first to say that Brotherhood is the last thing you should look at to see how deep this story goes. You’d have to read the manga to get the true depth that this story reaches. Brotherhood can tell the story but it can’t truly portray it as well as the manga does. So that’s what I’m basing my opinion on. I don’t know if you’ve read the manga Jake, or just seen Brotherhood. I really think Brotherhood is missing all the depth the story originally had and is just conveying the plot while listing off the âdeeper themesâ with a lot less heart so it’s not as impactful and at some points even missing completely. Though if you have read the manga then I don’t know what strange high expectations you hold for story-telling and it would be interesting if you gave some examples.
Honestly I think at this point it’s become a matter of making arguments based on bias and preference.
First of all, I dislike using terms such as shounen and seinen because they are vague, and only truly work when you are dealing with clear cut examples like Yu Yu Hakusho being shounen, or Berserk being seinen. So I would prefer to keep that terminology out of it. The appeal of FMA is at least partially outside of the range of the “shounen” catagory.
Next, there are a lot of different means of exploring themes with different kinds of story telling. Arakawa chooses to expand her plot at a very clear cut pace, without dwelling on any certain subject. She instead puts many details in and sprinkles them around in the right spots. You have to look hard for them, but they are certainly there. I think the problem with Jake is that if you don’t care to see them or think about them, they’re not going to jump out at you.
I think what I am trying to say is that you’re not going to appreciate what FMA has buried within it’s plot if you aren’t being entertained by it first and foremost. What I think is the genius behind Arakawa’s storytelling is that she doesn’t shove these things in your face, and so it avoids being pretentious or preachy.
Exactly Jack Dawkins, I don’t see how those themes are not deep just because they have been covered by other stories before. What hasn’t been done before?
@ Jake, if FMA is too simple for you I wonder what meets your standards? Because I am sure whatever example you give has also been done before and isn’t as deep as you make it out to be either. And I am saying this as someone who reads & watches much more than manga or anime.
Keith, you listed one of my favorite examples. Yu Yu Hakusho is my absolute favorite series. It’s a shonen anime, through and through, but yet…it has just something special and extra about it that lifts it beyond that vague, cliched term.
If I had to put FMA in a manga category, I couldn’t use shonen. It’s just…not it. It’s unique as well.
WOW lol it’s like the DAY AFTER and you guys are already like 28 comments DEEP!!!
everybody who’s commented has made some nice points for either side. i agree with those who say what Bones HAS kept has been done EXCEPTIONALLY WELL. the main plot(s)/points of the story are kept and pretty faithfully rendered. are there great manga panels/sidestories/touching little pieces that have been left out (i.e. Armstrong/Sig, Gran in Ishbal, Knox, etc.)? YES. does leaving them out in ANY way detract from the MAIN story that Father and his merry band are trying to do some dastardly thing in Amestris and it’s all up to Ed, Al, Mustang and a growing list of allies to stop him?
NO. NOT AT ALL.
People, PLEASE. perspective.
Arakawa has had 8+ years and over 3500 pages to flesh out and really breathe life into these characters. Bones has maybe 65 episodes and approximately 2000 MINUTES(!) to do the same thing, to bring her fantastic vision to animated life… AND THEY’RE DOING A HECK OF A JOB!!!! the manga for this anime and virtually ANY adapted anime will ALWAYS be the superior product because it’s the SOURCE MATERIAL. WE GET IT. i’m so G–D–Med pissed off by the same old tired narrative about “they suck/i’m pissed because they left this out or they didn’t get everything”.
THEY CAN’T GET EVERYTHING!!! is knox a nice character? yes. does he really have a big role in the larger story? heck no! hence, snip snip. basque gran was seen in brotherhood for all of ONE minute before scar remodeled his insides. hence 25 eps later we don’t NEED to see how nice a guy he actually was. now would it be nice? DEFINITELY, but there’s a larger story to cover in a FINITE time with more relevant and LIVING characters. hence, snip snip. TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE
i read the manga, LOVE the manga. i watch brotherhood, LOVE brotherhood. they don’t need to line up 100% and to dot every ‘I’ and cross every ‘T’. i’m not that picky, especially when 365 days ago i didn’t even know that brotherhood had been greenlit and i hadn’t read the manga in like 3 years and today i’m like a crack addict waiting for my weekly brotherhood/monthly FMA manga fix because of how RIDICULOUSLY high quality both have been.
so just sit back, buckle your seatbelts and enjoy the ride!! these upcoming episodes are gonna be great! can. not. wait!!
Oh a side note, I just watched this episode because it finally got subbed. I have to say, the scene where Ed was impaled was a lot more gruesome and powerful than it was in the manga.
Bones you get an A+
This episode was the best one yet. The scene where Ed was injured shows that anime can make you actually FEEL the violence. This isn’t all fun and games. When you get impaled, it freaking hurts.
@ Bobby, I agree completely.
Though, don’t count the Sig/Armstrong duo out just yet. They haven’t met up yet, but they’re going to have to, eventually, for that one fight, you know. It’ll happen either there or before hand. Even if it happens during the battle, that would be awesome. Like a ongoing rivalry there DURING the fight.
@keith
you’re right, the impaling scene was one of the few instances (like the ed/als body scene) where the anime not only equals the manga but surpasses it. partly because of the animation but mainly due romu paki’s vocal talents. in fact this episode in general covers the manga material better (really!). i read the chapters again after watching the episodes and the anime felt longer and less disjointed than the manga.
@bobby
im mostly with you on some manga fans contant moaning of cut stuff. its an adaptation, read the manga if you’re not happy. the ran-fan vs envy was one of my fave scenes in the manga and although disappointed i get why it was cut.
however, seeing as the anime seems destined to overtake the manga, a little padding out might not have been a terrible idea, eg including missing scenes and make the season 1 material at the beginning 2-3 longer. fmab is brilliant as it is but i’d rather it be longer if it meant not overtaking the manga.
of course, most of these feelings stem from the fact nobody but bones knows how they will combat this issue, whether taking a break till the mangas finished, including filler or gods forbid, creating a whole new ending. wish they’d tell us already.
so yeah, back on topic the anime is brilliant as an adapation. the only episodes i haven’t enjoyed where the loir episode (it was a bit kids tv and shit, be honest) and the ishbal flashback which really needed to be two eps long. it reason it wasn’t is because bones seems to feel this series will fall apart without ed and even include him in the few episodes when hes not around eg ep 19 with mustang vs lust. i don’t really have a problem with that but it’ll make the upcoming episodes interesting to watch since i recall ed being absent for quite a bit. filler anyone?
@Bobby, I agree with you 100% I love the manga but I also adore Brotherhood. I don’t look to get out of it what I get out of the manga but I don’t think it’s a bad anime because of that. It’s entertaining as hell and they’ve done a bang up job with almost everything. Some things they’ve done are disappointing but if Brotherhood was exactly like the manga down to doing every scene the exact same way and conveying the exact same feelings then what would be the point of reading the manga? It’s an adaptation, in a completely different form of media, and for that they’ve done such an amazing job. I love Brotherhood to death. I can’t say which I like better between it and the manga because I love them both as entirely different forms of telling the story.
I just realized something about this episode that bothered me. Namely that when Ed destroys the part of the steel girder sticking out of his back, all that’s left is the part sticking out of the front. Except when the chimera start pulling it out, all of a sudden it’s a lot longer than it’s supposed to be.
I hope the DVD’s fix these kinds of things
Psgels, i couldnt find an email address for you so i will ask this question here. I was wondering if you have seen or plan on seeing RahXephon?
E: not yet. Planning to watch it someday.
@21 lazysamurai
I think you’re underestimating us kids. The ammount of research Arakawa has put into fma’s alchemy is one of my favourite things about this series.