Whoa, talk about turning the chessboard upside-down. This episode pulled a lot of things that I suspected that the creators were saving for much later. This episode seems to be the real start of this series.With this episode, this show gained a whole new dimension.
So yeah, Battler finally started to look beyond the illusion of magic. It took the help of the former Beatrice, but finally this series is moving away from that one-sided slaughter-fest in Beatrice’s favour. This episode basically created six people in six different rooms, with all of the keys to these doors in their possession. This series then went on and confirmed that the one or ones who killed them is among the five Servants and Kinzou. Whoa, that seriously narrows things down, but it’s still a huge mystery about what the hell went on in these rooms.
The obvious suspect right now is Kinzou. This guy was the only one whose corpse wasn’t shot in the chest. This guy also has money: he could have used it to create an incredibly realistic fake body. He then could have hidden somewhere in the boiler room, and snuck out when nobody was looking. He could have used this method to survive in the first arc, and in the second arc he was one of the people who survived everything, so it does fit. But yeah, that doesn’t yet explain the locked-room mysteries of the second arc.
And yeah, Eva found the gold. By the rules of the witch, there shouldn’t be any more murders after this, but who knows what’s actually going to happen after this? It’s also interesting how each arc focuses on a different woman, which probably means that in arc 4, Battler’s mother is up. I do wonder though: arc 1 was about the children, arc 2 was about the servants, arc 3 pretty much seems to be about the adults. So what’s arc 4 going to be about? The witches?
Rating: ** (Excellent)
A part that was really left out was actually talking about the epitaph itself, which seems to be the only giant flaw in this episode imo. But yes the 3rd arc is a favorite of many because of the new realms it opens up for the game and it’s the first time you feel like Battler actually gets on a leveled playing field with Beatrice (also, since the pronoucication is weird, the ‘Madame’ Beatrice’s name is translated to Virgilia).
As for the 4th arc…well you’ll have to see for yourself hehe~ 😉
It’s been forever since I last watched this series, I guess I better pick it back up
@psgels
“This guy also has money: he could have used it to create an incredibly realistic fake body. He then could have hidden somewhere in the boiler room, and snuck out when nobody was looking.”
These red truths I’m about to post are from the game and were omitted in the anime. They were supposed to be shown during the six closed room discussion, so I’m 100% sure they won’t be brought up later. Still, it’s up to you whether you read them or not:
**RED TRUTHS**
.
.
“6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!”
“There is no one hiding in the six rooms!”
“No device exists which can lock them without a key, such as an auto-lock.”
“The 6 people died instantly!”
.
.
**end RED TRUTHS**
I have to wonder what determines the red truths. I doubt that Beatrice makes them up as she goes along, but if multiple truths can exist concurrently, what determines the invariant red truths?
That’s the dilemma in EP5 (End of the Golden Witch), as such that’s why there is the red truth, the *spoiler* blue truth and the *spoiler* golden truth.
I will say this in red: you totally deserve to be banned for that half-assed spoiler warning, kode-dekka. how am I supposed to avert my eyes if those big spoilers are right next to the warning ?
Quite a few interesting revelations and a decent magical battle, but the general animation quality went down once again.
I guess that means we can simply write off all the magical manifestations we’ve seen so far, which is quite helpful. Of course, that makes Virgilia’s very existence something of a paradox too, in addition to Beatrice’s, but perhaps we’re not supposed to try to wrap our heads around that so far.
It’s also interesting that Ronove forced Beatrice to retreat in order to avoid being cornered by further questioning, even though it seemed she was definitely going to deny Battler’s theory about the murders.
I imagine that the fact Eva has found the gold isn’t going to prevent more murders, that would be too easy considering how she’s been acting secretly on her own and without anyone else noticing. I’m thinking she’ll either be killed before she can do anything or she’ll end up collaborating with the killer(s).
They need more witch battles like the one in this episode. Epic.
The story keeps getting better and more interesting. Way better than when it first started.
I am SO excited for next week! This is probably the first time in this series that I’ve been so on the edge of my seat. I’m really glad things are heating up. I’m so excited to see what happens with Eva, even if I already kind of know the end result!
Also, it’s nice that you mentioned a different mother getting featured during each arc. I wonder if Kyrie will be featured next arc or not, though. I mean.. well, I can’t remember if what I want to say is a spoiler or not so I wont say it. If it isn’t you may be able to get what I’m talking about.
I was trying to send you an email but couldn’t find any email addresses in your blog :/
Anyways, I was going through your archive and realized you haven’t wrote anything on “monster” yet. Since it is such a famous series with mature subject matter I thought you have for sure wrote a preview or something about it but nope! Why don’t you see that anime? I’m posting this here because I don’t know where else to post it. So if you read your reader’s comments then answer me!
So in the VN at this point, they go into a bit more detail about the epitaph. All the adults talk about it. For anyone who’s interested, this is what Kyrie said:
The riddle can be split into three parts.
The first part, “My beloved hometown, the sweetfish river running through it…” to “There sleeps the key to the golden land” is part one.
The part describing the ritual is part two.
The four treasures are part three.
The first line in the ritual is “Lift up as a sacrifice the six chosen by the key”.
So Kyrie had a theory that part one was instructions to find a six-character keyword. Then you would remove those six characters from part two, and it would become a message about where to find the gold.
I don’t remember anything in particular about part three, sorry.
You can’t solve it in English, because the original riddle was written in Japanese, but it is a bit interesting to think about.
This is my guess based on what was said in the episode and what Taiyaki mentioned about the other red truths ommitted:
If none of the six committed suicide,
None of the deaths were accidents (based on what I assume Beatrice was going to say)
All died instantly.
At least 1 of the deaths wasn’t a homicide
Then the only other thing I can think of is the culprit died of natural causes (heart attack or disease). I’m also thinking that the person must have know about their condition/planned on dying otherwise it would fall into the accident category that was rejected.
Thoughts?
@ Camario: “I guess that means we can simply write off all the magical manifestations we’ve seen so far, which is quite helpful. Of course, that makes Virgilia’s very existence something of a paradox too, in addition to Beatrice’s, but perhaps we’re not supposed to try to wrap our heads around that so far.”
Not entirely. What Battler’s objective is is not to prove that witches don’t exist, but that witches, through magic didn’t cause the murders (the anime sort of garbled this point).
Recall Higurashi again. The supernatural existed, and we were all scared as hell over it. Until we found out that the supernatural, while it existed, was entirely incidental to all the killings that took place. Magic is real =/ magic caused the killings.
Beatrice, the Stakes, Virgillia, may very well exist, given that train of thought. This is besides the question of whether magic really does or does not exist though.
@dudul: Monster is on my to-watch-list. My problem is however that there are so many series that I still need to watch, so I can’t just have watched every single series out there.
@Tryce: it indeed depends on whether or not a heart attack could be labelled as an accident, but if not then it would be a plausible, although very unlikely, situation in which one of them was the killer, locked himself in a room and then somehow got a heart-attack, yeah.
@psgels: A heart-attack can seem unlikely, but remember that many of the victims were in the late stages of their life, i.e. old.
Example look at Kinzou, a extremely stressed old man who when shown to the audience is constantly screaming/yelling for Beatrice, which I imagine wouldn’t be good for his heart. Maybe after killing his servants his heart finally gives out, he dies standing up, and his body tumbles partially into the open furnace.
Another way to look at it is disease. All the bodies had blood on them, but who’s to say that it is their own blood or that if every corpse had a fatal wound on it. Unlike with the previous 2 arcs where you could clearly see what killed someone (destroyed face, gouged stomach), it is not so clearly defined in this arc as you can only see blood stains on the corpses but no clearly visible wound.
Suppose the culprit knew they were dying and were planning on dying after killing their 5 victims. They can have some motivation that in order for their life to have meaning (if servant is a culprit) or to have their last wish fulfilled (Kinzou) they have to start the epitaph chain prophecy. This would make Shannon or Kanon possible culprits as they appeared the most peaceful in death.
Genji is another possiblity as when you look back at the killings shown to us as if a witch did it, he was the only 1 who wasn’t “physically touched” when he died.
Hello all.
Just to pike up another thought as to why Beatrice was stopped from disproving Battlers theory by Ronove. In one of the earlier episodes is was discussed about witches needing risk factor for their magic (and thus the challenge of the epitaph). Perhaps by getting too wound up an denying any other possibility this would have an effect on the risk factor and thus while creating a short-term victory, could backfire in the long run?
The whole meta-game is based on risk for Beatrice, and as the risk increases with each game, her power also grows. From what we have seen so far it would be easy for Beatrice to create a situation with no possible natural solution, but instead there has always been some sort of gap left for doubt once attacked at the right angle.
It would also explain why she was initially hesitant to confirm it at first, but was pushed to the limit by Battler. If she created a closed answer then the power needed for the rest of her explanations could have weakened to a point which would give Battler enough power to deny all future events, while admitting a defeat would also help Battler with confidence as well as giving him more angles to attack in the future.
Anyway that’s just one possible explanation and I hope it helps.
Keep up the good work, it’s always interesting to see others peoples thoughts on the show.
@psgels
Something you need to know is that when battler is winning the discussion the sound novel used an awesome bgm called Dread of the grave and no the generic song they used in the anime called suspicion IT’S REALLY HORRIBLE AND IT RUINS THE MOOD COMPLETELLY
The bgm is upload in youtube i recommend you to hear it =)
Here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOmgr3q4sA
#17: No, they’ve switched to a variation of Core. It’s really much better now.
Although, I would recommend for anyone to check out Dread of the Grave, because it’s some pretty good music.
#18 you are wrong, core is beatifull but they only use it in the beggining of the discussion before the break, ALL THE LAST PART of the discussion when battler was “winning” they use the bgm suspicion instead of dread of the grave and that bgm destroys that part that in the sound novel was epic with dread of the grave MORE FEAR. See again the episode and you will realize.
#19 Throughout the third arc, they have been using “Core”, and that’s what I’m talking about. And also, Dread of the Grave was played properly during the episode two tea party.
Actually, if you dropped the series, I think you should start watching again now. Ever since Ronove showed up, the anime has been looking a lot better, so I suppose we have him to thank?
Also, re-reading my comment: I didn’t mean Core is better than Dread of the Grave, but that it was better than Suspicion for the triumphant parts.
#19
yes but we are talking about two different things i’m just saying that the bgm SUSPICION is horrible (they use it in episode 14 in the best part of the discuccion from minute 17 to minute 19 when in the sound novel was used dread of grave more fear)they also use it a lot in episode 2 instead of dread of grave (practically in all the discussions) They ONLY used dread of the grave ONE MINUTE in the tea party in the previus arc.
My main point is DON’T USE THAT SHIT BGM SUSPICION used core or another one instead of that because it ruins the scenes.
Hmm, so that’s what you were talking about. I didn’t even notice!
To be fair, Suspicion is a pretty good song, but I agree that they’re misusing it horribly.
@battler: as someone who hasn’t read the visual novel, I have no idea what you mean with Suspicion suck. A quiet background at that place seems to fit perfectly fine in that scene and it actually concentrates your attention on the dialogue, rather than thundering through the speakers like that Dread of the Grave. I actually think that Suspicion works a lot more subtle this way.
@psgels yes i understant what you mean but it changes the mood of the scene completely, ryukuji 7 intend to show how battler is winning it’s suppose to hype us A LOT and suspicion don’t make us feel nothing at all, is the same as no bgm in the background the feelings are very different between the adaptation and the original work that’s my complain.
The bgm core (they use it in minute 13) is a much incredible choice like they use it in episode 11 when battler say to repeat -there are at least 19 people- Compare the two scenes and you will realize how another bgm help a lot more the mood of the scene.
I really hope they improve the use of the great bgm umineko has, i don`t heard any opinion from the music in anime only viewers and deen already used AMAZING SONGS but they last less than a minute and a lot of times are not well use i think that’s the reason the anime viewers said nothing at all about the music.
fix from what i said: when they use core and battler said to repeat -there are at least 19 people- was at the of episode 12
I was thinking about the scenario where all the servants were killed in different rooms and this is my theory.
Right now we can assume that one of the servants killed the other servants.Beatrice said that it was not a suicide, and nearly said that it was not an accident. There is a possibility that that servant was poisoned by another culprit, with whom he/she was working with. The other culprit could have used a slow working poison.
psgels: I can understand why you say that, in a way, but the way the BGM complements the scenes in the visual novel is really a beautiful thing. That’s why VN fans get angry so easily over them changing what BGM is played in different parts.
battler: Actually, the other day, I decided to watch some of those “suspicion” scenes, only playing Dread of the Grave in the background: I found that the timing was way off. The scenes don’t last as long in the anime as in the VN, which is why I think they’re having problems fitting in Dread of the Grave.
@Juni yes i did the same, i watch the scenes with dread of the grave and yes it was time off but deen can synchronize it very easily, think of the tea party in episode 2 the anime use dread of the grave ONLY ONE MINUTE and was very well use in that time and in the last episode the final part of the discussion with battler last more than 2 minutes so they can really synchronize the bgm
But the problem is not that they skipped dread of grave like i said I think the problem is suspicion, core o any other great bgm will be a much better choice.
psgels i can reccommend you other excelent bgms to heard if you missed them in the anime =)
Here are the best ones
rahu goldenslaughterer
Used in anime: before the ending in episodes 2 3 and 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAupQUUglkU&feature=related
System 0
Used in anime: Episode 4 and 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93VODUlLuRk&feature=related
The classic dread of the grave
Used in anime: Only in episode 11 =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxz6p6kDOc&feature=related
Answer
Used in anime: In episode 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U209xHIvW8&feature=related
Rougoku one of my favourites =)
Used in anime: In episode 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PiPbL-TW1E
Song with name in kanjis XD
Used in anime: In episode 14 (beatrice vs virgilia)
Actually i leave you the video of a fanmade battle that is exactly the same as the sound novel with the great bgm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_2_LgvHMk
And next episode i’m sure the anime will use hapiness of marionette and i will cry of happiness =)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIbcL7G5fEc&feature=related
psgels i can recommend you other excelent bgms to heard if you missed them in the anime =)
Here are the best ones
rahu goldenslaughterer
Used in anime: before the ending in episodes 2 3 and 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAupQUUglkU&feature=related
System 0
Used in anime: Episode 4 and 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93VODUlLuRk&feature=related
The classic dread of the grave
Used in anime: Only in episode 11 =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxz6p6kDOc&feature=related
Answer
Used in anime: In episode 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U209xHIvW8&feature=related
Rougoku one of my favourites =)
Used in anime: In episode 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PiPbL-TW1E
Song with name in kanjis XD
Used in anime: In episode 14 (beatrice vs virgilia)
Actually i leave you the video of a fanmade battle that is exactly the same as the sound novel with the great bgm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_2_LgvHMk
It seems a lot of VN players care too much about the BGM. The BGM is good in the game, since the game has no voice. But in the anime, the viewers should focus on the talking, not the BGM. The BGM is just important when there’s no talking at all.
@4sake I love the music in every anime i always pay a lot of attention to the music and i think you are very wrong to say “The BGM is just important when there’s no talking at all” i can’t even think about thousand of scenes that i love and have a lot of talking with amazing music, i don’t care if they use the sound novel bgm i simple love good music, right now i’m seeing kara no kyoukai and the music is amazing even in all the “talking parts” that you think are not important at all with music jajajaja XD
In conclusion it was just a recommendation to psgels to heard some amazing tracks from the sound novel, is not a complain to the anime.
4saken is right. This is an anime and the music has to be mixed in some other way than a visual novel. Other that if they continue with these stupid plot devices i don’t give a damn f*ck to some generic music. It could be Behetoven’s Opera but if the anime is idiotic, no music can save it.
Regarding stupidities, the outcome of the fight between Virgilia and Beatrice is ludicrous. Beatrice wins because she continues rewriting the rules of the game every time. I lost, but you know, i just hit you before, so i won before! LOLOLOL!!
Ok, the director want to let us know that this affair called magic is more a matter about how much you convince the opponent that your illusion is more real than his one. But please, isn’t there some better way to do it?
I continue to call this anime stupid, and the flowing of the events is proving me right. It’s not my claim. The event are just preesented, developed and solved in a stupid way. The next one is the multiple linked closed rooms. The setup is nic. Now i want to see what an idiotic reason they invent to solve it.
Maybe Kinzo killed all the servants but slippered on a banana skin that was left there by another servant on purpuose to let him fall inside the oven and be burned dead!
If it’s something like that i drop this. I swear it!
The truth is that Kinzo is actually….
@kinzi: Maybe Kinzo killed all the servants but slippered on a banana skin that was left there by another servant on purpuose to let him fall inside the oven and be burned dead”
it would be nice when you realize how ignorant you are =) we are talking about ryukuji 7 when you know the truth come again here crying telling everyone how wrong your thinking was =)
…all games! 😛
@cool boy “it would be nice when you realize how ignorant you are =) we are talking about ryukuji 7 when you know the truth come again here crying telling everyone how wrong your thinking was =)”
just lol! haha!
@Solaris: I don’t understand why you said: “Beatrice wins because she continues rewriting the rules of the game every time”. Beatrice won right from the beginning, but she just continued the fight for fun, pretending as she lost. Because that’s her nature, giving fake hope then crush it. Just like in the first time Battler asked her to repeat in red that there are no more than 18 people in the island. She refused while she could, making others believe that she’s losing.
Next is the multiple linked closed rooms. Yes, the setup is wierd. Then we should ask the question why the culprit had to do something like this, instead of just killing them in a simpler way. And, this time again is a closed room. There’re a lot of them before. Then we should wonder why the culprit is so obsessed by the closed rooms. Watching this anime, we should ask question, not keep saying that it is stupid.
“It’s also interesting how each arc focuses on a different woman, which probably means that in arc 4, Battler’s mother is up. I do wonder though: arc 1 was about the children, arc 2 was about the servants, arc 3 pretty much seems to be about the adults. So what’s arc 4 going to be about? The witches?”
It’s amazing how close these guesses are without actually being correct 🙂
4saken: the preceding closed rooms were not solved. I suspect this last will go unsolved as well.
Coolboy and Lolol just laugh about my ass, will you? Ryukuji7 could have done a good job with the novels or just with higurashi, but this anime just sucks presenting its riddles. The stories are nice and all with their background and chars being unfolded gradually, but the real problems are riddles. Mysteries and puzzles aren’t worth 1/10 of the great classics of thriller which invented the “closed room” and are the source of ispiration of this Umineko itself. Magic battles are also quite stupid themselves. You cannot deny the evidence of the facts.
The fight with Virgilia was won when Beatrice just said “remember what’s sticking out of your body”. That was the magic. When Virgilia believed it she fell into the illusion and made the magic come true. If you deny that outcome, you’re denying magic is illusionary and its strenght comes from convincing the others about your own truth. If the fight went just how you 2 said, that’s just a dumb fight and adds nothing to the story. Not that it’s unlikely to be in such a stupid anime. But of course you 2 smart asses sure read the novels, so you’re absolutely sure of you reasoning, right?
umm, i just laughed at what coolboy said because of your guess regarding kinzo…
@Solaris: They are not solved (yet) because the anime now is about the Question Arcs. Just questions piled up, no answer.
And I see no problem with the riddles. Too easy? Too difficult? Or what? You just said they suck, can you clarify your claims?
About the magic fights … OK, each one has his own interpretation. So it’s no need to argue more. I just want to ask you a question: In your point of view, the club activities, Rena’s “I want to take you home”, … in Higurashi, are they dumb and add nothing to the story too?
@ Solaris: “4saken: the preceding closed rooms were not solved. I suspect this last will go unsolved as well.”
Like I said before, it’s not Higurashi, and you’re not expected an answer arc after every question arc. Remember, Battler actually *remembers* those other times (if you allow the slight spoiler, they’re going to address this in the 4th arc).
Think one long story. In Higurashi, single question arcs were answered with a respective answer arc. We get to discover that Shion killed everyone, or Keichi was crazy, or whatever. Umineko is one long composite question/answer arc. The questions are extended over several games, and answers are also.
@ Solaris: “The fight with Virgilia was won when Beatrice just said “remember what’s sticking out of your body”. That was the magic. When Virgilia believed it she fell into the illusion and made the magic come true.”
No, if you’ve noticed, the effect of Endless Magic was heavily foreshadowed in the beginning of the arc, with destroyed things already being destroyed, and bringing them back just delays that destruction (the Vase). Virgilia *was* already dead, no amount of disbelief in her part would have reversed that, especially because she’s Witch. Not that death actually stops them much, as you’ve noticed.
As to the point of the magic duel, it introduced a new character and revealed the illusory nature of magic (as noted, no matter how flashy, there is nothing in that garden). I think it was pretty meaningful.
4saken and Deus who’s right? Is Umineko a single story or is a pileup of question/answer arcs? maybe you’re both right or wrong. What’s sure is that Higurashi and Umineko are very different each other.
@4saken
Umineko’s riddles and Higurashi’s club activities are so much differently used.
I fail to see the use of the first ones, just ’cause they’re actually left unsolved. So they aren’t easy or difficult. They’re just not part of the story (now). They only exist to kill people off. Maybe they will be solved in the future, but i don’t see that happening. You people said this repetition of arcs is useful to Battler to start thinking about magic and its implications. But the 6 chained rooms riddle is still there. If this was a common mystery novel, we’d have given other clues to solve the riddle. But Umineko is not that common after all.
Higurashi’s club activities were meant to flesh up the characters and their bonds. And it was very useful at that back then.
@Deus:
Magic is not isllusionary if you explain the fight that way. Nor i see any Endless magic cast on Virgilia to let her die a little later like it was done with the vase. In fact it was the other way around: Virgilia was killed *before* not *after*.
You happen to learn magic is illusionary by what Battler stated after the fight.
It was meaningful that way but meaningless to prove the carachteristics of magic. It was just a fight in your interpretation.
Where do you get the hint magic is based on how much you force the others to “your” truth?
If you get all the hint’s you had till now you see my explanation does make sense.
1) There are more truths
2) magic is illusory
3) endless magic can change the curse of fate, while magic is temporary.
Beatrice has endless magic, so if she says now: “you’ve been hit before” the present changes according to that, and you’ve been hit, and she’s won the match.
@Solaris:
In a mystery we have to find the answers to three questions: “whodunit”, “howdunit” and “whydunit”. In most murder mysteries I’ve read, the third one is much less important to the other two. The detective just has to find the culprit and how he commited the murder, then the culprit will surrender and then … blah blah blah, he’ll tell everyone about how suck his life was and why he murdered people.
But I think Umineko has a different format. I think the question “whydunit” is much more important than in other mystery novel. You said the riddles in Umineko exist just to kill people off. I don’t think so. Most of the murders are very wierd, very unnatural. Then the culprit should have a good reason to do all of those. And I have to say that I care about why the murders were done more than how the murders were done. I agreed with you that the repetition in each arcs doesn’t help much in solving the riddles. That’s why I think that the question “howdunit” is the least important one in Umineko. What important of the repetition is we know more about the characters, so that we can solve “whodunit” and “whydunit”. After that, we’ll know the answer for “howdunit”. But well, this is just my opinion.
The “why” you say is to let people believe in the witch. If you throw out any possible logical reason, then you must believe ina supernatural one. The “who” is also clear. The how, is meaningless as long as it’s unexplained. So everything is clear from the start and there’s no mystery at all. That’s really bad in my opinion and takes a lot from the fun of this serie. As a matter of fact the people side stories are more interesting than the battle between Battler and Beatrice.
I don’t think anything is clear unless you admit that the witch is the culprit and she did everything with magic. I’m anti-fantasy so I believe the culprit is a human. In that casem, Beatrice has nothing to do with the murders, she just claims that it’s her doing. If the culprit is a human, then we don’t know “who” and “why”. Why does he have to do everything to let other people believe the witch exists? And the “how”, it’s unexplained because there’s still a lot to go. Have you ever read a mystery novel where the tricks are explained right from the beginning?
@ Solaris: “Magic is not isllusionary if you explain the fight that way. Nor i see any Endless magic cast on Virgilia to let her die a little later like it was done with the vase. In fact it was the other way around: Virgilia was killed *before* not *after*.
You happen to learn magic is illusionary by what Battler stated after the fight.”
You misunderstand the scene. The Vase (Virgilia) was destroyed (already dead). Then revived. Then the destruction caught up with it (the vase/Virgilia was already in the state of living death). The sequence of events in the magic battle corresponds with the first scene.
Ultimately, what matters is that no matter the form, the destruction of the object is assured the moment it was killed the first time. There is no instance of endless magic reviving something and having that something *stay* revived (precluding witches, who we know don’t die that way, of course).
This is the “magic theory” explanation of Endless Magic. The “anti-magic” theory is that endless magic is really the power of *BLEEP*. And as you know *BLEEP* is endless.
@Solaris: “It was meaningful that way but meaningless to prove the carachteristics of magic. It was just a fight in your interpretation.”
Yes, it showed Battler no longer being tied up by what he sees, but rather the evidence present (nothing in the garden). Basically, his growing maturity in his fight with the witch.
@Solaris: “If you get all the hint’s you had till now you see my explanation does make sense.
1) There are more truths
2) magic is illusory
3) endless magic can change the curse of fate, while magic is temporary.
Beatrice has endless magic, so if she says now: “you’ve been hit before” the present changes according to that, and you’ve been hit, and she’s won the match.”
No, its more like fate happens, and Endless Magic is something that decides *how* that fate occurred, can recreate it Endless times, and yet still achieve the same fate.
Essentially, take the scenario: Somebody is killed (no matter the reason). Beatrice comes up and revives that person, kills that person again and again in Endless ways, and yet, that person is, and always was still dead (from the first time). Beatrice did that in her fight with Virgilia.
Let me just say this: Endless Magic doesn’t go against fate, its a slave to it. Or at least, the magic Beatrice claims to master is 🙂
4saken: Have you ever read a mystery novel where the tricks are explained right from the beginning?
That’s right! There’s no mistery novel revealing tricks at start, except this one 😛 Well, i’m sure what we see now is some kind false picture, and Battler will later solve the riddles and expose the truth. But as it’s for now, he’s lacking intellect. So we spent 2 arcs without any reasonable explanation. Aka the riddles weren’t solved by reason and the murders we saw in the first and the second arc don’t have any human culprit by now. Now let’s wait for future outcome.
4saken: Why does he have to do everything to let other people believe the witch exists?
In some back episode they said the witch needs people who believes in her to regain real existence. Now she’s something ethereal like a ghost.
@Deus.
Did you read the novels to be so sure about your claims? Anyway we should be in accord to say Magic is illusionary, that’s a nice start. Let’s see how the story goes on.
@ Solaris: “Did you read the novels to be so sure about your claims? Anyway we should be in accord to say Magic is illusionary, that’s a nice start. Let’s see how the story goes on. ”
I’m up til the end of Arc 4. I already own Arc 5, but am still waiting for the translation to be done before I play it. I’m pretty confident as of events up to the end of this entire season.
Take note, I’m *not* saying there is no magic at all, or that magic is illusionary, therefore magic doesn’t exist. Any of the below can be considered:
A. There is no magic. Everything can be explained by materialism.
B. There is magic. The murders were done by magic and hence pointless to find a culprit or disprove by logic.
C. Magic exists. It murdered some people, but others were murdered through normal means, or vice versa.
D. Magic exists, but has nothing to do with the murders, aka Higurashi.
E. Magic exists, but is more insidious and/or subtle, and works through human actors, still aka Higurashi.
Etc…
My personal stance as of the moment is the last option. I actually do believe magic exists, but is a lot more subtle than it’s initially presented.